Wake Up, America! Wake Up! PLEASE!!

[ed4mwf]

@cpl2010co

1. You're shifting the goalposts again -- you said "no single study shows that voter ID laws reduce turnout"
2. You still can't read. "Indeed, as of 2014, more than 600,000 registered voters in Texas lacked adequate identification under SB 14 (Malewitz 2016b).", which is above half a percent (on par with the numbers from the Michigan study).

Half a percent is still within the margins for quite a few elections

Winning by less than 1% is the difference today that we have President Trump instead of a President Clinton.
Wisconsin was won by .77%
Michigan was won by .23%
Pennsylvania was won by .72%

Those states thought to be going for Hillary are the ones that delivered the electoral college win for Trump.
He is losing all three today, some by double digits.
As a matter of fact, when you look at the electoral map, there is no state where Trump has made gains, and a group of states that he has put in play that were safely red states.
Looking at a map like that, the Republicans have no choice but to try and restrict the eligibility of voters or change/reduce the number of polling places.

 

[ed4mwf]

Lol, no. He used fake news to get their funding cut, but dozens of investigations (wasted resources) proved they did nothing wrong

"The edited videos were published on Andrew Breitbart's website BigGovernment.com from September through November 2009. They generated extensive, negative publicity for ACORN, and led to the U.S. Census Bureau and the IRS ending their contracts with ACORN, the U.S. Congress suspending its funding,[9] and ACORN losing most of its private funding. This was despite several independent investigations that by December 2009 began to reveal no criminal activity by ACORN staff had taken place.[8][10][11][12][13][14][15]"

The registration of minority and poor voters is their only crime.

 

[cpl2010co]

I asserted that in-person voter impersonation basically never happens, so voter ID laws only disenfranchise people.

You helpfully found a link that identifies 10 (!!!) cases of voter impersonation in the 12 year span it researched.


You decided on your own with no evidence that the researchers must be democrats so you could ignore the work, but still assert than the 10 known cases of voter impersonation totally make it OK to disenfranchise tens to hundreds of thousands of people because they're "insignificant".

I asserted that in-person voter impersonation basically never happens, so voter ID laws only disenfranchise people.

You helpfully found a link that identifies 10 (!!!) cases of voter impersonation in the 12 year span it researched.

I showed you two articles by independent political scientists groups in different states demonstrating that a significant (just under a percent of the electorate) number of eligible voters don't have ID, and they're disproportionately black and latin.

You decided on your own with no evidence that the researchers must be democrats so you could ignore the work, but still assert than the 10 known cases of voter impersonation totally make it OK to disenfranchise tens to hundreds of thousands of people because they're "insignificant".

You can try to spin, and you can (incorrectly) copy the terms I use to describe your fallacious argument style, but you know you're wrong. You know you played yourself, and the main way you played yourself is by trying hard to argue something that's just not true.

Reality is a cold bitch.

1) And the article also asserts, and you quoted, with great hubris, the exact quote, that mail in ballots are 270x more likely to have fraud. Opps you just shot your other argument, dead. Mail In ballots that is. And in the process added a point in favor of in person voting.

2) You presented two 'academic' 'papers' that admit they were making up numbers, but they made sure to guess in favor of increasing the numbers of minorities being impacted. Funny how you stopped spewing the BS 600K when I pointed out your 'papers', while cheating, still struggled to find 14k. Or a very questionable 20K in voter pools over 5 Million and almost 9 million. Again not disproportionally impactive and defiantly not a significant number by any stretch. 0.060%.

3) I instructed you how to find out the authors political leanings- "Take the names of the authors and google them" You will find they have several articles and opinion pieces supporting Dems and Dem talking points. That is three times I have told your lazy ass that. And again it is your problem that you are woefully ill informed and indoctrinator. Not mine.

Funny how you keep dodging the Remedies for the 'impacted' voters and the fact that they all still get to vote pending confirmation. So again no impact. Again you have not given any legit sources or shown anything close to disproportionately high impact due to voter ID laws.

In fact you have run from that argument and tried to hide behind word play and strawmen.

 

[cpl2010co]

Winning by less than 1% is the difference today that we have President Trump instead of a President Clinton.
Wisconsin was won by .77%
Michigan was won by .23%
Pennsylvania was won by .72%

Now Ed- Thank you. This is a good start to a counter.

So let me ask you. Would voter ID laws have change this? Is their evidence the margin would've been bigger or smaller if ID laws were in place and actually prevented voting?

Also, I am curious on this from the video I posted. How many Black People, meaning all- family, friends, associates, do you know that don't have ID?

 

[cpl2010co]

The registration of minority and poor voters is their only crime.

Funny there were those conviction for voter registration fraud, even some confessions and many of the 'fake' addresses were to Democrat Operatives address. Oh all those forms that were confiscated.. and use to get 18 convictions... Opps

 

[cpl2010co]

I thought you guys like forgetful old men?

Ahhhh the smell of liberal hypocrisy.

Someone points to the corrupt Obama and you jump all over yourself scream "you Trumptards" always point out Obama get over it. It does not matter. Then you pull up Reagan. Reagan lost it in the last year or so of his second term after being shot a few year before. Biden before you ran him lost it. You Dems picked him over several 'minorities' knowing he was suffering. Yeah the Dems are racist at all.

Face it the debates are coming. Creepy Joe "little girl feeling hair sniffing" Bidden will have to face Trump. Creepy Joe has a lot of bones in his closet and Trump has the ability to read the files. Man you Dems sure do like supporting real racists and KKK members (Byrd). Ah the party of the KKK, Jim Crow and the party that fought to keep slaves.

 

[cpl2010co]

Compared to Election Fraud, Voter Fraud isn't crap, cpl2010co . Voter fraud is one-person-at-a-time fraud ... takes a tremendous number of fraudulent voters to show up to make even a dent compared to Election Fraud. They found hundreds of absentee ballots in his frik'n car.
Read on dumbnuts ...

Election Fraud in North Carolina Leads to New Charges for Republican Operative (Published 2019)

L. McCrae Dowless Jr., who was previously indicted over work in other elections, was charged in connection to efforts related to the 2018 general elections.

www.nytimes.com

Key witness testifies to tampering with absentee ballots in N.C. House race

Lisa Britt told the State Board of Elections she engaged in fraudulent and illegal activity involving absentee ballots in unresolved race.

www.nbcnews.com

If you cast a ballot for someone else that is voter fraud, dumbnuts. Including if you do a whole bunch of mail in ballots, dumbnuts. And all the articles I read, including yours, use Election and Voter fraud interchangeable on this story, dumbnuts. In fact most people see voter and election fraud as the same thing, dumbnuts.

You guys really hope this line of BS sticks because you have one example of a Republican in NC. Election Fraud and Voter Fraud are two sides of the same coin or the same crime in most cases. They have to have bad voter rolls to cover the numbers, therefore they have to have false voter registrations and padded voter votes. Otherwise, you get way more votes then voters and then we find voter/election fraud.

Simple question. If all the voters are authenticated by ID at voting how do the Dems or the Republicans pad the vote counts? i.e. voter/ election fraud.

I know ya'll will willfully not get this, but I will try:
200 people on the roll
200 show and are confirmed with Valid Legal ID against the matching voter registration and they vote
Then you should only have 200 votes and you know they are valid, and that means? A valid confirmed election results.

If you have more than 200- you know someone cheated. That is really fucking simple why don't you guys get it?

I know that rule of law ******* is real hard for people who hate America and want to destroy it.

And again tell me why we shouldn't purge the voter registration rolls and have ID checks to vote?

Again, tell me how checking IDs of all voters, as they vote, will not prevent a huge portion of your new talking point, election fraud?

And finally once again you add to the mounting case you guys are building against mail in ballots and the need for voter ID laws.

 

[blkdlaur]

I thought you guys like forgetful old men?

Reagan was already President when he started to develop dementia - Biden is a candidate that your running for president - BIG difference - the way Nancy prompted Ronald IS very reminiscent of how Jill prompts ole Uncle Joe - though - thanks Ed.

 

[MacNfries]

If you cast a ballot for someone else that is voter fraud, dumbnuts. Including if you do a whole bunch of mail in ballots, dumbnuts. And all the articles I read, including yours, use Election and Voter fraud interchangeable on this story, dumbnuts. In fact most people see voter and election fraud as the same thing, dumbnuts.

No they don't .... pulling the ballots of ONE party from the voting to affect the tally & results of the voting has nothing to do with voter fraud. Yes, they both involve the same thing, but they're not interchangeable for people who know the difference and desire preciseness. Election fraud is like a "mass murderer" ... whereas voter fraud is simply ******* ... election fraud involves a lot more people and the process affects a lot more people and a bigger results. In fact, Election fraud doesn't have to necessarily involve a "fraudulent vote" at all.
You've insulted me at least a half dozen times already ... so listen up for 4-5 seconds ( I know that's your maximum of concentration time)
I'd like for you to look at the photo below as it is a photo of the smallest living creature on Earth ... a single cell amoeba. And what really makes this tiny creature so unique is the fact that it actually has more brains than you do.

 

[Drillher4me]

So where does the "Great Negotiator" and author of "Art of the Deal" go from here? Trump's "Lover" from North Korea has just created Global Headline News by giving the below love message to his "Lover" in Washington! I guess Trump and his devotees will refer to it as a simple "Lover's Quarrel!" If it weren't so serious it would DEFINATELY be funny, if not PATHETIC!

-------------------​

North Korea blows up liaison office in Kaesong used for talks with South

North Korea blows up liaison office in Kaesong used for talks with South | CNN

North Korea has blown up a joint liaison office used for talks between itself and South Korea, the latest sign that ties between the two longtime adversaries are rapidly deteriorating.

www.cnn.com

 

[cpl2010co]

No they don't .... pulling the ballots of ONE party from the voting to affect the tally & results of the voting has nothing to do with voter fraud. Yes, they both involve the same thing, but they're not interchangeable for people who know the difference and desire preciseness. Election fraud is like a "mass murderer" ... whereas voter fraud is simply ******* ... election fraud involves a lot more people and the process affects a lot more people and a bigger results. In fact, Election fraud doesn't have to necessarily involve a "fraudulent vote" at all.
You've insulted me at least a half dozen times already ... so listen up for 4-5 seconds ( I know that's your maximum of concentration time)
I'd like for you to look at the photo below as it is a photo of the smallest living creature on Earth ... a single cell amoeba. And what really makes this tiny creature so unique is the fact that it actually has more brains than you do.
View attachment 3419767

I noticed how you ran from these questions, again:

"Simple question. If all the voters are authenticated by ID at voting how do the Dems or the Republicans pad the vote counts? i.e. voter/ election fraud.

I know ya'll will willfully not get this, but I will try:
200 people on the roll
200 show and are confirmed with Valid Legal ID against the matching voter registration and they vote
Then you should only have 200 votes and you know they are valid, and that means? A valid confirmed election results.

If you have more than 200- you know someone cheated. That is really fucking simple why don't you guys get it?

I know that rule of law ******* is real hard for people who hate America and want to destroy it.

And again tell me why we shouldn't purge the voter registration rolls and have ID checks to vote?

Again, tell me how checking IDs of all voters, as they vote, will not prevent a huge portion of your new talking point, election fraud?

And finally once again you add to the mounting case you guys are building against mail in ballots and the need for voter ID laws."


Strange how you only value preciseness when you think it makes your argument or CNN tells you it is. You got this weak ass argument from CNN, or some lib blog sourcing them. And they are only making this argument because you both think it makes Trump wrong on his valid assertions about mail in fraud. The best part, you, ridge and ed have all posted articles and quotes backing his assertion in your ego fueled race to post that those evil "Tumptards" are wrong.


Now, why would you and the other leftist keep avoiding and cower from these points and questions to try word play semantics over election v. voter fraud? Why would you leftist repeatedly avoid the real discussion?

Why are you leftist so petrified of the Voter ID laws, ID Authenticated Registrations, and ID Authenticated Voting? Why would you leftist marxist be so against laws that eliminate ~95% of fraud around elections?

Why are you leftist dem marxists uber petrified of a Valid and Authenticated election?

 

[ed4mwf]

Now Ed- Thank you. This is a good start to a counter.

So let me ask you. Would voter ID laws have change this? Is their evidence the margin would've been bigger or smaller if ID laws were in place and actually prevented voting?

Also, I am curious on this from the video I posted. How many Black People, meaning all- family, friends, associates, do you know that don't have ID?

OK, you seem to want to reasonable here, I will respond in-kind.
It's not about ID, it's about a specific ID. Taking the time, gathering the papers to have a government issue ID will eliminate some.
As far as a DL or State ID goes, millions do not have that. Unpaid, tickets, fines, fees, baby support, etc, has penalties that eliminate your ability to renew.
Also, poorer people tend to be more transient from lease to lease. So, address changes happen faster than ID renewals.
This has been an issue for decades since getting an id was tied to other issues. The poorer you are, the more likely you're some kind of payment plan or, not paying at all. Libertarians have been very vocal about it for years.

Let me ask you, What is wrong with the system as it is today?
When people register they attest that they are who they are and live where they live. When they go and vote, the sign-in is an affidavit of you swearing you are who you are and live where you live. It's enforceable in court, and has been used.
The system works. Why tool around with it?

 

[ed4mwf]

Ahhhh the smell of liberal hypocrisy.
Man you Dems sure do like supporting real racists and KKK members (Byrd). Ah the party of the KKK, Jim Crow and the party that fought to keep slaves.

Many White Nationalists Praise Controversial Trump Tweets

This story was updated on July 17 at 8:00 am U.S. President Donald Trump's recent outburst of tweets daring four Democratic members of Congress to "go back" to their countries of origin have been roundly condemned as racist by the Democrats and even some members of his own party. Trump...

www.voanews.com

Trump says he's not a racist. That's not how white nationalists see it

The publisher of a neo-Nazi website said white nationalism was a winner in the midterm elections, while others cheered President Trump as their champion.

www.cnn.com

White nationalist hate groups have grown 55% in Trump era, report finds

Southern Poverty Law Center warns of growing movement driven by ‘fear of demographic change’

www.theguardian.com

White Supremacy And Trump

We look at the participation of far-right extremists at President Trump's 2020 kickoff rally and what this means for his campaign.

www.npr.org

You are being redirected...

Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite! First, remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.

I can do this all day with the names you call Joe. You know this much, if it comes down to a battle of character, Trump's bags are already packed. By the way, Jean Carroll looks like the courts are siding with her and Trump will have to submit his DNA for evidence in her charge of *******. Just saying.

 

[cpl2010co]

OK, you seem to want to reasonable here, I will respond in-kind.
It's not about ID, it's about a specific ID. Taking the time, gathering the papers to have a government issue ID will eliminate some.
As far as a DL or State ID goes, millions do not have that. Unpaid, tickets, fines, fees, baby support, etc, has penalties that eliminate your ability to renew.
Also, poorer people tend to be more transient from lease to lease. So, address changes happen faster than ID renewals.
This has been an issue for decades since getting an id was tied to other issues. The poorer you are, the more likely you're some kind of payment plan or, not paying at all. Libertarians have been very vocal about it for years.

Let me ask you, What is wrong with the system as it is today?
When people register they attest that they are who they are and live where they live. When they go and vote, the sign-in is an affidavit of you swearing you are who you are and live where you live. It's enforceable in court, and has been used.
The system works. Why tool around with it?

The system does collect votes, but the system has well documented fraud, both voter and election fraud.

The realistic and fair way to certify an election is to authenticate the voters as being valid and legal to vote at time of election. And to ensure active purging of rolls of non-active and dead voters. ID check was the practice in most states from the late 40s early 50s to the early 90s. Present ID and vote and clerks updated the rolls.

These are long standing laws being brought back, not newly introduced.

I argue that the affidavit does not authentic the voter. It is a legal tool to investigate and create a procedural violation to prosecute someone if found to commit fraud after the fact, years after in many cases.

And let me say- The Democrats have spent the last four years and millions of taxpayer funds saying the voting system did not “work” in 2016. This is not meant as an insult this is a counter point.

In terms ID:

I understand your points however, I must argue the data we have does not support ID laws prevent mass numbers from voting. Ridge presented two ‘academic’ papers, from left learning authors, both 'papers' trying their hardest to prove this, and the best plausible number they could come up with was 14K affected and 57% of those were white. The voting pool is 8.6 Million.

I also point out, that yes, a percentage of poor people don’t have id for reasons they can address/fix or wrong address registrations they can fix. Would those people be likely to vote? To stay with the study, Texas had a voter age population of 19 million and 8.6 million voted in 2016. Add in the turnouts over the long term and it is plausibly deduced these listed examples, without id, have zero impacted or were or will be prevented from voting. And really, these issues are all personal accountability issues. Why should the rest of the population live with fraudulent and stolen elections.

The other point is these voters without ID have remedies and, at the time, could cast provisional ballots and sign an affidavit. If authenticated those votes are counted.

 

[Allforthewifey]

U.S. May retail sales surge 17.7% in the biggest monthly jump ever

U.S. retail sales were expected to rise 8% in May, after plunging 16.4% the prior month as retailers went into lockdown amid the coronavirus crisis.

www.cnbc.com

 

[cpl2010co]

Many White Nationalists Praise Controversial Trump Tweets

This story was updated on July 17 at 8:00 am U.S. President Donald Trump's recent outburst of tweets daring four Democratic members of Congress to "go back" to their countries of origin have been roundly condemned as racist by the Democrats and even some members of his own party. Trump...

www.voanews.com

Trump says he's not a racist. That's not how white nationalists see it

The publisher of a neo-Nazi website said white nationalism was a winner in the midterm elections, while others cheered President Trump as their champion.

www.cnn.com

White nationalist hate groups have grown 55% in Trump era, report finds

Southern Poverty Law Center warns of growing movement driven by ‘fear of demographic change’

www.theguardian.com

White Supremacy And Trump

We look at the participation of far-right extremists at President Trump's 2020 kickoff rally and what this means for his campaign.

www.npr.org

You are being redirected...

Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite! First, remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.

I can do this all day with the names you call Joe. You know this much, if it comes down to a battle of character, Trump's bags are already packed. By the way, Jean Carroll looks like the courts are siding with her and Trump will have to submit his DNA for evidence in her charge of *******. Just saying.

And this countered my point how? It didn't

Wow some hard left propagandist blogs say some so called white supremacy a-hole supported something. Oh no. "That should prove our lies about Trump being 'racist'"- the left

Your party kept white supremist in their leadership into 2010 and longer. Now you have an ally of segregation and plausible ******* as your presidential candidate. Don't forget the Black Muslim Nationalist organizations that openly support and contribute to the Democrats- for decades. And the anti-white, 'subjugate whites, racism against whites as a national policy as a way to fight past racism' elected officials you have now. Especially the one who married her brother to break the law.

Note the part where Biden was willing to work with Sothern Democrat "racist" to get a plum committee and more power. Or the part where all his "civil rights work" has no proof and are lies.

Biden Was More Than 'Civil' With Segregationists. He Was An Ally

Leading presidential contender Joe Biden was far more than 'civil' with segregationists; they were some of his biggest early allies.

thefederalist.com

 

[ed4mwf]

The system does collect votes, but the system has well documented fraud, both voter and election fraud.

The realistic and fair way to certify an election is to authenticate the voters as being valid and legal to vote at time of election. And to ensure active purging of rolls of non-active and dead voters. ID check was the practice in most states from the late 40s early 50s to the early 90s. Present ID and vote and clerks updated the rolls.

These are long standing laws being brought back, not newly introduced.

I argue that the affidavit does not authentic the voter. It is a legal tool to investigate and create a procedural violation to prosecute someone if found to commit fraud after the fact, years after in many cases.

And let me say- The Democrats have spent the last four years and millions of taxpayer funds saying the voting system did not “work” in 2016. This is not meant as an insult this is a counter point.

In terms ID:

I understand your points however, I must argue the data we have does not support ID laws prevent mass numbers from voting. Ridge presented two ‘academic’ papers, from left learning authors, both 'papers' trying their hardest to prove this, and the best plausible number they could come up with was 14K affected and 57% of those were white. The voting pool is 8.6 Million.

I also point out, that yes, a percentage of poor people don’t have id for reasons they can address/fix or wrong address registrations they can fix. Would those people be likely to vote? To stay with the study, Texas had a voter age population of 19 million and 8.6 million voted in 2016. Add in the turnouts over the long term and it is plausibly deduced these listed examples, without id, have zero impacted or were or will be prevented from voting. And really, these issues are all personal accountability issues. Why should the rest of the population live with fraudulent and stolen elections.

The other point is these voters without ID have remedies and, at the time, could cast provisional ballots and sign an affidavit. If authenticated those votes are counted.

So, it appears you are not stuck on a specific ID, like a national voter ID? I am good with that.
You say that there is well documented fraud, but the evidence is not well documented hence the arguments.
You have to be prepared to tell us, what is the acceptable number of lost legitimate votes from this process?
I mean, how are you balancing potential fraud, with actual disenfranchisement? And then, look at that and ask does it serve the public good. It's a Cost Benefit Analysis for public policy.
Have there been any elections that have been changed or could have been because of documented fraud? I am serious here. I am unaware of this.

 

[cpl2010co]

So, it appears you are not stuck on a specific ID, like a national voter ID? I am good with that.
You say that there is well documented fraud, but the evidence is not well documented hence the arguments.
You have to be prepared to tell us, what is the acceptable number of lost legitimate votes from this process?
I mean, how are you balancing potential fraud, with actual disenfranchisement? And then, look at that and ask does it serve the public good. It's a Cost Benefit Analysis for public policy.
Have there been any elections that have been changed or could have been because of documented fraud? I am serious here. I am unaware of this.

I agree- no national ID.

So we are going down this road again. I disagree there is plenty of documentation of both voter and election fraud. We already had this discussion more than once and it has been asserted by you and many others, more than once. And documented by you and many others here that fraud exists. In fact you commented on the backup just yesterday. And let me guess the next response will be "it is so few and infrequent." One time is enough to tighten the voter id laws.

1) You have to show legitimate mass disenfranchisement based on voter ID laws with real world data; not based on made up data, historical anecdotes and/or theory. And we both know you can't.
2) The plausible numbers show 14K all no id voters or 6,168 all Minorites no id voters out of 8.6 million voters. And the no ID voters only had to fill out provisional ballots and affidavit. And these numbers are a huge maybe. And the votes, if valid were counted, And again, no adviser impact or disenfranchisement.
3) Again you have to show adverse impact- There are several remedies before and at the time of vote, so again no impact.

No I am balancing actual fraud, in some cases in 21 states, against theoretical disenfranchisement of a populations that historically has very low turnout and participation in the system. The fact is there is fraud and we are a Rule of Law nation. We must have a valid and authenticated election who only count the votes of authenticated legal voters.

Yes there has been a case in North Carolina. It was asserted with a conviction that mass fraud took place and they had to have a new election. And is there any case of a documented modern election that was changed because of voter ID or taking dead and in active voters off the rolls?

Again your own party does not agree with you. They have spent 4 years saying or implying fraud.

Seriously why would you not want to have authenticated and valid voters casting valid authenticated votes?

 

[ed4mwf]

And this countered my point how? It didn't

Wow some hard left propagandist blogs say some so called white supremacy a-hole supported something. Oh no. "That should prove our lies about Trump being 'racist'"- the left

Your party kept white supremist in their leadership into 2010 and longer. Now you have an ally of segregation and plausible ******* as your presidential candidate. Don't forget the Black Muslim Nationalist organizations that openly support and contribute to the Democrats- for decades. And the anti-white, 'subjugate whites, racism against whites as a national policy as a way to fight past racism' elected officials you have now. Especially the one who married her brother to break the law.

Note the part where Biden was willing to work with Sothern Democrat "racist" to get a plum committee and more power. Or the part where all his "civil rights work" has no proof and are lies.

Biden Was More Than 'Civil' With Segregationists. He Was An Ally

Leading presidential contender Joe Biden was far more than 'civil' with segregationists; they were some of his biggest early allies.

thefederalist.com

I did notice this is from the Federalist. I suspect from you style of argument you once collected a check from them or similar publication. Or maybe had am radio gig or podcast. I'm not engaging with them as a source.

Listen, when talking about white people in politics over decades, that ugly racist stick, has smacked them across party lines over time. It was more about what was acceptable in society at the time. Minds, hearts, priorities and etiquette has changed for the better. So, comparing historical acceptance is not on par with today, it's not fail, usually not germane.

Black radicals are a direct result of racism. However, the difference is that none have gained political power through it. They are on the outside yelling. White racist have been on the inside for centuries. If black radicals rise to political power, that radicalness is lost along the way and they work within a system that has been slow to change. It happens over on over. If you are more specific with whom, or what group, I can show you that they support agendas, not party.

Trump is a throwback. He utilizes the few who are stuck in the past, or are afraid of a future where they are not representative of the majority. He gives comfort to those who hate. He does it in such a way that they blend in with those who support the party and it's hard to tell the apart. So, you get to label that Republicans are racist. Or, all republicans are not racist but, racist find themselves being republicans. Trump's willingness to accept this support, and provide comfort in their views, plus his troubled history of race relations, yes, makes me comfortable saying he's a racist. Though I don't know what's in his heart. Or if he has one.

 

[ed4mwf]

I agree- no national ID.
So we are going down this road again. I disagree there is plenty of documentation of both voter and election fraud. We already had this discussion more than once and it has been asserted by you and many others, more than once. And documented by you and many others here that fraud exists. In fact you commented on the backup just yesterday. And let me guess the next response will be "it is so few and infrequent." One time is enough to tighten the voter id laws.

OK no national ID. Check.
If one time is enough to tighten the laws but, what about the millions that are disenfranchised by stricter laws?

Voter Suppression During the 2018 Midterm Elections

In an election where so much was at stake, countless Americans were prevented from making their voices heard because of voter suppression and other Election Day problems.

www.americanprogress.org

1) You have to show legitimate mass disenfranchisement based on voter ID laws with real world data; not based on made up data, historical anecdotes and/or theory. And we both know you can't.
2) The plausible numbers show 14K all no id voters or 6,168 all Minorites no id voters out of 8.6 million voters. And the no ID voters only had to fill out provisional ballots and affidavit. And these numbers are a huge maybe. And the votes, if valid were counted, And again, no adviser impact or disenfranchisement.
3) Again you have to show adverse impact- There are several remedies before and at the time of vote, so again no impact.

If you lead with #2 then we have no issue. The problem is it leads to voter suppression because it's never just about showing id.

A Dead-Simple Algorithm Reveals the True Toll of Voter ID Laws

Critics of voter ID laws have had a difficult time proving their menace in court. A new algorithm could change that.

www.wired.com

Voter ID

Overly burdensome photo ID requirements block millions of eligible American citizens from voting. We can improve the security of elections without compromising citizens’ right to participate in elections.

www.brennancenter.org

There is plenty of evidence that it's a suppressive move. I just wanted to know what it acceptable in the amount of disenfranchising voters to prevent potential fraud. In Texas it appears to be 608,000 potential voters.