Wake Up, America! Wake Up! PLEASE!!
- Thread starter Drillher4me
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You'll need to back up your assertion that experts don't agree with more substance. The example you give, Sweden, is not an example of experts at odds with other experts. Instead, it is an example of a country which hadn't felt the need to impose more 'draconian' measures as soon as other countries because its economic model and employee rights regime allows for extensive homeworking - a strategy that the Swedish government has been encouraging employers to implement. Up to 90% of businesses in the capital have managed to achieve staff home working. Added to this the fact that Swedes trust their public health system and are adhering voluntarily to guidelines designed to beat the epidemic. We're taking about a country very unlike the USA. In short.
This article was posted already to counter “all world leaders and experts”
And Sweden didn’t agree with the leaders they did something different. Hence the blanket statement and implication that of All World agree 100% was incorrect.
It is disingenuous of you to suggest that they 'don't agree with experts'. They very much do. Speaking after banning public gatherings from today, the Swedish pm: "No one is alone in this crisis, but each person has a heavy responsibility." So, yes, Swedish experts and government are taking it seriously and in days to come out is likely that the measures they take will get more severe.
But they don’t fit the blanket statement of “All” And it counters the attempt that "All world leaders" with the implication that since you don't agree you must be wrong. You just tried it too.
Of course, not all epidemiologists are in agreement regarding forecasting, but mainly because the data is incomplete and therefore the numbers that are put in the models are unreliable. [and proving my point here] For example, no country on earth is testing everyone. You can't trust China's results, but neither can you trust the UK's, USA's or German's. Not because they are 'cooking the books', but because the tests are in short supply and the effort is focused on treating the ill. The UK, from quite early on decided that measures to slow the spread were more important than testing everyone at that moment in time.
Add to this the fact that people have the virus and are asymptomatic so you might as well ignore all the stats apart from deaths? No, because different health systems attribute deaths in different ways. Not all hospitals and doctors are calling them covid19 deaths.
In short, the data is unreliable.
Thank you for proving my point. I have only been saying that for week now.
You cannot say, 'We are 4 months into this outbreak', because the outbreak is reaching different areas at different times. It is more advanced in London than it is in Wales and more advanced in NY than it is in Idaho. With good social distancing it may not ever get so bad in Idaho, but ignoring the advice from health professionals is just plain stupid and says more about the ignorer than the health professional.
So, Wuhan might be four months into the outbreak, but it hasn't even arrived in some areas yet.
The facts you quote over the recovery rates are not secret. Anyone with half a brain has been following the progress of this virus for months. I first read about it in the first week of January. Myself and others I know isolated our elderly a month ago. I haven't seen my dad for weeks as he has breathing problems. But the 99 - 98% recovery rate you quote makes this virus between 10 and 20 times more deadly than the flu. That's YOUR data.
Well the left media keeps telling us we are all in this together. And almost every commercial is telling us we are in this together. And you keep telling us this is a world pandemic. So if we are all in this together and then we are all in this for 4 months.
The point is the virus broke in “November” travel from the area continued until mid to end of January. Both domestic and international. By the Wuhan Mayors account up to 7 million people traveled in and out of the area. So the virus was spreading for 4 months and you just admitted the numbers were wrong.
The only reason we're not seeing millions dead is that it was reported to the WHO on December 31st by China and it was acted upon by governments across the world. USA was notably slow in responding. We were already effectively isolated voluntarily and were planning for a major healthcare crisis whilst the US president was calling it the flu and laughing it off. Pretty much every country on earth has imposed restrictions, unprecedented. But you feel that it is because they've been 'sold' something and are damaging their own economies because they're not as smart as you. You can see through the hoax can't you. You're like the president of Belarus, who thinks they can beat the virus with vodka and saunas.
You keep defending China and their cover up. We discussed this before and your implication was proven to be wrong. They didn’t report to be good global citizens. They covered it up and only reported because of the whistleblower doctor posted the warning on the internet and China could not continue to cover up. Yet you keep blindly defending them, Why?
And we don't have millions of Deaths because Trump shirked off accusation of Xenophobia and closed travel.
Well, what's happened in the last 24 hours in the US? Well your numbers are up and suddenly you're not contemplating being opened for business by Easter. Remember that? No, now your looking at the END of April, AT LEAST. In fact, you're hoping for early June. It won't be early June. We'll be lucky if things are approaching normal by September.
Did it ever occur to you that Trump was trying to give a scared population hope? That maybe just maybe he was trying to lift some spirits. Did you actually watch the full speech? Or just blindly trust the media?
You sound paranoid about the press. That's because your president doesn't trust the press and that's rubbed off on you. HE doesn't like the press, because he's thin skinned and narcissistic and hates being criticised. He's done a job on folks like you.
Not paranoid. I do research and I am a pragmatic skeptic with curiosity. You should try it. I would recommend looking at how the media and political class interact, where they go to school and the years they go to school. What social clubs and fraternal groups they belong to. Where they vacation and who they vacation with. What they write and what parties or politics they subscribe to. I read asking, did they change the subject and what is missing. Does it make sense. Not does it fit my political belief. Not confirm my bias.
Darwinism will sort this out. Ignore the virus at your will. I just hope you don't ******* too many people with ignorance.
Yes it will and has already. Both those who listened and the ones that didn’t listen. I look forward to you condescendingly explaining that one.
No you only saw those because you hate Trump and you have the mental illness of leftist liberalism. You just cherry pick to placate your ego
Try going back to the number point and go numbered point by point and refute the points. If you are so sure they are overstated.
I guess you don't understand free country and voluntary transactions.
Oh what is this.
- SEIU Healthcare Union Suddenly Finds 39 Million N95 Masks
https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/03/26/seiu...
3 days ago · SEIU-UHW has 97,000 members who work in hospitals across California. Within 48 hours of painstakingly calling leads and potential suppliers, the union discovered a distributor who had the 39 million masks, and has since found another supplier who says his company can produce 20 million more masks … - Left-Wing Labor Union SEIU Found Hoarding 39 Million Face ...
...
Left-Wing Labor Union SEIU Found Hoarding 39 Million Face Masks ⋆ The Washington Sentinel
Extremist left-wing labor union SEIU miraculously "found" the 39 million medical face masks in its warehouses.
thewashingtonsentinel.com
Mar 27, 2020 · Extremist left-wing labor union SEIU miraculously “found” the 39 million medical face masks in its warehouses three days after U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr announced that the feds were going to start going after hoarders.
I imagine you often feel condescended to. That's because there is no substance to your argument. Just an overarching NEED to feel like you've 'won', rather than a desire to reach the truth. That's why it isn't really possible to have a constructive exchange of ideas. It is a game of tennis for you - just get your point over the net at the opponent.
Tedious.
Hope that was suitably condescending for you. Cheers
So, now in the tRump world a person who hates liars is mentally ill? Got it.
I think what you've done is taken some statistics, and conflated them with your political statements without the real work of correlation. You call that an over statement (if you're caught) in your world.
Yes Medicine, diet, health etc. etc. are significantly better today....and despite that even with the social distancing we're doing COVID is rapidly spreading, the medical system is getting overloaded and the disease is killing significant numbers of people. You need to do some research before making making such comparisons to Spanish flu. Covid is roughly as infectious as the Spanish flu was. Covid's R-naught is actually a bit higher than the Spanish flu based on research....although the numbers are close enough that the stated difference is within the statistical error band.
You say "by this timeframe in the epidemic the Spanish Flu had Million to 2 Million, probably more, cases worldwide." Well newsflash...we have well over a million cases worldwide of COVID right now. The lab confirmed cases are 740k. There are a lot more people walking around that have it and either haven't developed symptoms yet or had mild symptoms and didn't get tested.
But hell...why not have a parade! Or maybe just get your church choir together and sing songs to praise the sky fairies.... Up in Washington state, the Skagit Valley Chorale decided to ignore what was clearly brewing and get together to practice their singing. There weren't any reported cases in their county. 60 of them got together, used hand sanitizer, avoided handshakes, and tried to spread out/keep their distance in the room as best they could during the 2.5 hour long practice. None had any symptoms. One of the songs they practiced was “If we ever needed the Lord before, we sure do need Him now.”....boy if they only knew! Within days many started showing symptoms. 45 have been diagnosed, three hospitalized and two are dead. (Note: that is a 5% hospitalization rate and 3.3% mortality rate)
A choir decided to go ahead with rehearsal. Now dozens of members have COVID-19 and two are dead
The deadly outbreak among members of a choir has stunned health officials, who have concluded that the virus was almost certainly transmitted through the air from one or more people without symptoms.news.yahoo.com
Funny how you tried to gloss over that the SARS and MARs are the same coronavirus family. And as you said, had much lower rates. And yet, you keep trying to use an influenza out break from 102 years ago as your case. And ignoring the scale difference and trying to gloss over the entirely different capabilities, education, technological difference, and many other factors in 102 years.
Oh and WHO and the official numbers on Explore, I believe are direct feed from CDC disagree with you. Yes it is spreading it has an incubation period of up to 18 days. China admitted they had 7 million people traveling in and out of Wuhan in January alone. It started in November, so by their numbers it could be as many as 21 million people moved in and out. And yet again we are either at WHO- 638,146 or the CDC of- 737,670. Not a million.
But wait you said- "Well newsflash...we have well over a million cases worldwide of COVID right now. The lab confirmed cases are 740k." So how did you know? You are Wagging- Wild ass guessing. The Lab and WHO and CDC say 740 K or lower. And that is the point.
And per your experts you are social justice windmill fighting for- "We are all going to get it." 'Vast Majority will have mild to no symptoms and get over it easily." 'They are destroying the economy so hospitals will not be over run' 'The US state governments are breaking the law so 'we' can flattening the curve.' 'And so someone else's grandma won't die.' Local and State Government and leftist media messaging and statement there bud. Well after March 13 when the Mayor of NYC said if you are under 50 go out and eat in restaurants to help the NYC economy.
So you tell me how that is suppose to work. We are all going to get it but destroy the economy. Poverty kills more than this.
And strange how this started right after impeachment failed. This Timing could give some conspiracy mind people pause. Let's see how many of you leftist fucktards will bite on his last sentence.
It maybe, but the numbers and the timeline are not supporting this. That is my point of this whole round and round.
I for one hope it petters out soon and we all safe. And that all of us join together to push the government to bring back manufacturing from China.
I must thank you for pointing out the difference between 'over stating stuff' and 'straight lies'. I now have a feel for what you pass as legit info.I guess you don't understand free country and voluntary transactions.
Oh what is this.
- SEIU Healthcare Union Suddenly Finds 39 Million N95 Masks
https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/03/26/seiu...
3 days ago · SEIU-UHW has 97,000 members who work in hospitals across California. Within 48 hours of painstakingly calling leads and potential suppliers, the union discovered a distributor who had the 39 million masks, and has since found another supplier who says his company can produce 20 million more masks …- Left-Wing Labor Union SEIU Found Hoarding 39 Million Face ...
...Left-Wing Labor Union SEIU Found Hoarding 39 Million Face Masks ⋆ The Washington Sentinel
Extremist left-wing labor union SEIU miraculously "found" the 39 million medical face masks in its warehouses.
Mar 27, 2020 · Extremist left-wing labor union SEIU miraculously “found” the 39 million medical face masks in its warehouses three days after U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr announced that the feds were going to start going after hoarders.
For instance, you stated above in section 2:
"Extremist left-wing labor union SEIU miraculously “found” the 39 million medical face masks in its warehouses"
However, in section 1 it clearly points out that:
"the union discovered a distributor who had the 39 million masks, and has since found another supplier who says his company can produce 20 million more masks"
----
It is obvious to anyone who reads the article that SEIU "used it's connections to find a distributor with masks on hand and found another supplier..." Yet you take that and try to make it appear that the union or it's members are stealing and hoarding equipment. Again, they called around and found a distributor with these masks in a warehouse- a distributor NOT the union.
I gotta tell ya, what tried here is what you would call a straight lie. A dishonest presentation of information. Breitbart did it but you support it. And that's not an over statement.
You've consistently ignored the timeline and made up your own version of events. Because you have swallowed trumpy's anti Chinese agenda.
So again. The states with the highest federal funding for welfare are blue. I bet we find they are also the states getting the most federal medical payments. And federal school funding. The most Federal School lunch program funding also.
So you just inadvertently argued that the
Rich liberal Democrats in blue states use federal funding to offset the high cost of living in blue states
That rich democrats, in blue states, use federal funds to offset the low wages they pay
And Rich democrats keep their poor residents in place.
And that you believe trapping people in welfare and low wages is helping them.
That sounds like a feudal system. Or a company store system.
The best part you tried to blame Wal-Mart who is owned by rich liberal Democrats.
Oh the hypocrisy.
I have provided you with reputable sources. We discussed this previously and you just don't like what they say.
The Whistleblower doctor was warning his friends and the world in late December. CNN says he posted on Dec 30 to Wechat. And if what you are saying is true why did the Chinese Government order the destruction of the samples in the last week of December as they were 'reporting' it to WHO?
And this is not demonizing. This is stating the facts as we know them now. China tried to cover it up and only when it was out did they admit it and still let 7 million people travel in and out of the area in January alone. Now they are lying, as is normal, and running a PR campaign to save their economy.
Just ask yourself this. What is the likely response by Western Governments and Businesses with this outbreak and China's initial response?
First- https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/03/asia/coronavirus-doctor-whistle-blower-intl-hnk/index.html
China officials ordered coronavirus cover-up, report says
https://nypost.com/2020/02/29/china-officials-knew...
Mar 02, 2020 · Chinese scientists knew about the coronavirus and its deadly effects as early as December — but were ordered by government officials to suppress the evidence, according to a …
Chinese scientists destroyed proof of virus in December ...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-scientists-destroyed-proof-of-virus-in...
Chinese laboratories identified a mystery virus as a highly infectious new pathogen by late December last year, but they were ordered to stop tests, destroy samples and suppress the news, a …
China’s Expulsion of Journalists Proves They Have More to Hide
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/03/...
12 days ago · Chinese laboratories identified a mystery virus as a highly infectious new pathogen by late December last year, but they were ordered to stop tests, destroy samples and suppress the news, a
FLASHBACK Jan. 14: WHO Tells Everyone Don’t Worry Because ...
https://dailycaller.com/2020/03/18/flashback-who-china-coronavirus-contagious
Mar 18, 2020 · A regional health official in Wuhan, centre of the outbreak, demanded the destruction of the lab samples that established the cause of unexplained viral pneumonia on January 1. China did not acknowledge there was human-to-human transmission until more than three weeks later.
Do you want to keep defending the Chinese Communist Government and their actions?
Do you want to provide a timeline that proves different?
Gloss over SARS & MERS? Please come join us here in reality land. I wrote a whole paragraph on them. I even brought up MERS when you only mentioned SARS. A simple search of this thread proves nobody even mentioned MERS until I did. I also explained both SARS and MERS were less infectious but more deadly than COVID. They are cousins with different characteristics....COVID's combination of being readily spread before symptoms and mortality rate close to that of the Spanish flu make this the greatest health emergency of our lifetimes.
I am ignoring nothing, unlike you. I talked about those factors....and pointed out that despite those factors, COVID's mortality rate is near that of the Spanish flu.
I made it quite clear to anyone bothering to read that the 740k cases are "lab confirmed cases" while the million+ I mentioned include cases walking around with little or no symptoms. If you think there are only 740k cases in the world right now....you need to open your eyes and engage some neurons. The 60 people in that choir didn't have any symptoms and certainly weren't in the lab confirmed case count when they got together to sing....where do you think they all got exposed????
If you're suggesting I'm a "leftist fucktard" you might want to go read my post history....or hell why not go have a parade!
I think you are trying to frame the narrative, create a strawman, along with some other fallacies, to avoid the discussion.
Again- which point was an overstatement? What stands out, I keep asking you which point was an overstatement and you keep doing the above.
Wow you sure do live a life where you only see evil in others. I wonder how you justify all the Democrats lies.
Two things:
1. Never ever believe what the Chinese government presents to the world as fact- especially if the inverse can make them look unfavorable. They are the Kings of state run media. They're the ones who taught North Korea how to do it.
2. tRump LOVES communist , or totalitarian regimes. A sanction here, a tariff there means nothing if they compliment him and allow his family to make millions using their system of business.
And yet you keep arguing the same point. Even after you admit the current numbers are WRONG.
The point- No one- not even the experts- know what the numbers are. Hence arguing this is the same levels as the Spanish flu with the current WRONG numbers and total guessestimates is alarmist and not true.
Here:
"A popular refrain is that the new coronavirus has a frighteningly high fatality rate of at least 2 percent, which is supposedly comparable to that of the 1918 influenza pandemic, also known as the Spanish flu—one of the deadliest viral outbreaks in history. The truth is that this comparison is severely flawed and that the numbers it relies on are almost certainly wrong."
"Puzzled by this discrepancy, I started to investigate its possible origins. No one knows precisely how many people the Spanish flu infected and killed; estimates have generally increased over time and researchers still debate them"
Full Article:
Covid-19 Is Not the Spanish Flu | WIRED
https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-is-nothing-like-the-spanish-flu
Covid-19 Is Not the Spanish Flu A widely cited stat about death rates seems to argue otherwise, but it's surely incorrect. So how'd it end up in the research literature?
So you are arguing all this on two data sets that are both Wrong and Overstated estimates, per the Experts.
Lastly, I apologize for implying you are a leftist. Sometimes hard to keep track of who is who.
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