Wake Up, America! Wake Up! PLEASE!!

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I partially agree. Reagan's failure is directly attributable to his compromising with liberals.

you should listen to the ******* you put out!

but in case you are being deliberately stupid let me spell it out
trickle down does not work and never has!

you give money to the wealthy...they spend it overseas
the poor and working class see nothing
under Reagan we went from the richest nation in the world to a massive debt
his "one world" allowed companies to get breaks for moving overseas
we went from an exporting country to a importing country
Reagan at the time KNEW it wasn't working and lied to the American people telling them social security was going broke and needed more money..he raised taxes...and spent it all on shoring up his crooked government

defend those facts!...they are well documented
bush tried it again under his administration and it failed again....so tell me how compromising with the liberals was the problem


under Bush he had complete control
 
How do you compare 2 different policies that have different goals? Answer that. I doubt you will.


Russian policy compared to Russian policy.

Ladies and gentlemen, in Zwang's view, these are different things. And although the topic has largely been whose Russian policy has been more effectual, Zwang's argument seems to be each policy has different goals.

Curious, can you even define how each policy has been different? I can, and already have, also citing the relative successes of each. Citing foreign policy experts.

You seem pretty smart. Give it a shot. Let us all see your insight and critical thinking abilities.
 
Social Security/Medicare






RAIDING THE TRUST FUND


The Big Lie


The Looting of Social Security



Throughout history, governments around the world have misled and deceived their citizens, at least some of the time. Sometimes the deception could be justified on the basis of national security concerns. But, at other times, the only thing at stake has been political power and greed. That is the case with the embezzlement of $2.7 trillion of Social Security money and the spending of that money for wars, tax cuts and other non-Social Security programs.

The United States of America has had its share of government scandals from Teapot Dome, under President Harding, to the Watergate scandal, which brought down Richard Nixon, to the Iran Contra scandal under Reagan, and the Monica Lewinsky affair under President Bill Clinton. These scandals have garnered a lot of news coverage and resulted in political casualties. They have also called into question the integrity of government, in general, during the periods of heavy news coverage. But, in each of these scandals, public concern over government dishonesty, in general, has been only temporary.

Most Americans want to trust and feel good about their government, and government distrust is usually limited to politicians of the opposite political party. In other words, Democrats usually do not trust Republicans, and Republicans do not trust Democrats. When one party is caught up in a political scandal, the other party goes on the offensive until they have made as much political hay of the incident as possible. But what if there are offenses against the public in which members of both parties are equally guilty? There is no political gain from exposing misconduct in one party if the other party is equally guilty. On the contrary, secrets that both parties want to keep from the public are very hard to expose.


When I first discovered that the government was systematically embezzling Social Security money, and using it for non-Social Security purposes, I didn’t want to believe what I had found. I did a lot of research in an effort to disprove my findings, but the deeper I dug, the more evidence I found that the crime of mishandling Social Security funds had enjoyed bipartisan support from the very beginning. The only way the government could have gotten by with the scam for so many years was by extensive bipartisan support and a trusting public.

The public trust of the government was strengthened when Ronald Reagan became President in 1981. Millions of Americans had welcomed Reagan into their homes for years, as the host of “Death Valley Days” and “The General Electric Theatre.” He was loved by many from the day he entered the White House. No matter what went wrong during his years as President, Reagan seemed to almost never be blamed directly. He was often called the Teflon President because almost nothing of a negative nature seemed to stick to him. As a trained professional actor, Reagan had an uncommon degree of charisma. He soon became America’s most loved modern-day president, and he was seen by many as an elder statesman, and even a beloved grandfather figure. Some people even suggested that his likeness should be carved onto Mt. Rushmore with other great former presidents.

A man with the talents of Ronald Reagan could tell a lot of big lies and possibly never get caught. Reagan told more than one whopper. His first one was straight out of fantasy land. Reagan said he would cut income tax rates by 30 percent over a three-year period, and end up with more revenue than before the cut in rates. You don’t have to be an economist to figure out that, if the government wants to increase revenue, it would usually raise tax rates—not lower them.

******************************************************************************

Reagan’s big lie about getting more revenue with lower tax rates led to his biggest lie of all. Once it became clear that supply-side economics was not working, Reagan had a big crisis on his hands. His promises to reduce the deficits and lower the national debt flew right out the back door. Reagan did not want to admit that his economic plan had failed and he didn’t want to rescind his cuts in income tax rates. He desperately needed to find a new source of revenue to offset the revenue which had been lost because of the cut in income tax rates.

****************************************************************************************

Alan Greenspan, who was worth his weight in gold as an advisor to Reagan, came to the rescue. He pointed out that there was a way to get more revenue without touching the income tax cuts. Greenspan told Reagan that they could raise payroll taxes, and say they were doing it to strengthen Social Security. Then they could use the surplus revenue just like income- tax revenue.

***************************************************************************************
It was a clever plan. The surplus Social Security revenue from the payroll-tax increase wouldn’t be needed to pay actual benefits for 30 more years. Why not just put the money in the general fund, for now, and let future presidents worry about replacing it. It probably didn’t seem like such and evil deed to Reagan and Greenspan at the time. After all, they were only “borrowing” the money. Hopefully some future president would repay it. But the real effect of their action was to take money from working baby boomers, in the form of increased payroll taxes, and give that money to some of the richest Americans in the form of big income tax cuts.

It must not have taken Greenspan very long to convince Reagan to begin embezzling the Social Security surplus revenue, because Reagan took his first action toward getting his hands on the money by writing a letter, which greatly exaggerated the plight of Social Security, to Congressional Leaders on May 21, 1981, just four months after taking the oath of office as President. Excerpts from that letter are reproduced below.


“As you know, the Social Security System is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Over the next five years, the Social Security trust fund could encounter deficits of up to $111 billion, and in the decades ahead its unfunded obligations could run well into the trillions. Unless we in government are willing to act, a sword of Damocles will soon hang over the welfare of millions of our citizens…



Social Security was definitely not “teetering on the edge of bankruptcy” in 1981 as Reagan claimed in his letter to Congressional leaders. The 1982 National Commission on Social Security Reform, headed by Alan Greenspan, issued its “findings and recommendations” in January 1983. The Commission accurately foresaw major problems for Social Security when the baby boomers began to retire in about 2010. But that was nearly three decades down the road. In addition to the long-term problem of the baby boomers, the Commission found a possible short-term problem for the years 1983-89. But the outlook improved and became favorable for the 1990s and early 2000s. The possible minor problem for the years 1983-1989 was based on very pessimistic economic assumptions. So, at the time Reagan informed Congressional leaders that Social Security was teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, the overall condition of Social Security funding was fairly sound for the next three decades.

Reagan wrote a follow-up letter to Congressional leaders dated July18, 1981, which included:

“The highest priority of my Administration is restoring the integrity of the Social Security System. Those 35 million Americans who depend on Social Security expect and are entitled to prompt bipartisan action to resolve the current financial problem.

At the same time, I deplore the opportunistic political maneuvering, cynically designed to play on the fears of many Americans, that some in the Congress are initiating at this time…


…In order to tell the American people the facts, and to let them know that I shall fight to preserve the Social Security System and protect their benefits, I will ask for time on television to address the Nation as soon as possible.”

This second letter to Congressional leaders was still another big lie. Social Security was certainly not Reagan’s “highest priority.” Like other conservatives, Reagan had hated Social Security from the day it became law in 1935. He was a hardliner when it came to all government social programs. He called unemployment insurance “a prepaid vacation plan for freeloaders.” He said the progressive income tax was a “brainchild of Karl Marx.” And, he called welfare recipients “a faceless mass waiting for handouts.” Reagan referred to Social Security as a “welfare program” and, during the 1976 Republican Presidential Primary, Reagan proposed making Social Security voluntary, which would have essentially destroyed the program. There is no way that anyone who knew Reagan’s record would accept his claim that Social Security was his highest priority. He had always wanted the program eliminated, or at least privatized.

Reagan’s scare tactics worked. Congress passed the Social Security Amendments of 1983, which included a hefty increase in the payroll tax rate, in a record time of three months. The tax increase was designed to generate large Social Security surpluses for the next 30 years. The public was led to believe that the surplus money would be saved and invested in marketable U.S. Treasury Bonds, which could later be resold to raise cash with which to pay benefits to the boomers. But that didn’t happen. The money was all deposited directly into the general fund and used for non-Social Security purposes. Reagan spent every dime of the surplus Social Security revenue, which came in during his presidency, on general government operations. Social Security, which Reagan claimed he was trying to fix with the legislation, never saw a penny of that money.

It would have been bad enough if Reagan had been the only president to raid the Social Security trust fund. But his successor, George H.W. Bush picked up right where Reagan left off. Bush had promised the voters during the campaign that he would not raise taxes by saying, “Read my lips. No new taxes.” With the Social Security surplus as a huge slush fund, Bush did not need to raise taxes, but he raided the trust fund and spent the money, just like Reagan. However, the secret practice of looting the Social Security trust fund did not remain a secret for very long. Members of Congress began tosee what was happening to the Social Security surplus, and they did not like what they saw.

Some members of Congress were appalled by the embezzlement, and a few tried to end the theft. On October 13, 1989, Senator Ernest Hollings (D-SC) lambasted the Bush administration for its mishandling of Social Security funds. Excerpts from the speech are reproduced below:

“Of course, the most reprehensible fraud in this great jambalaya of frauds is the systematic and total ransacking of the Social Security trust fund in order to mask the true size of the deficit…The Treasury is siphoning off every dollar of the Social Security surplus to meet current operating expenses of the Government…The hard fact is that, in the next century, the Social Security system will find itself paying out vastly more in benefits than it is taking in through payroll taxes. And the American people will wake up to the reality that those IOU’s in the trust fund vault are a 21st century version of Confederate banknotes.’

A year later, on October 9, 1990, Senator Harry Reid of Nevada made the following statement on the Senate floor:

“The discussion is are we as a country violating a trust by spending Social Security trust fund moneys for some purpose other than for which they were intended. The obvious answer is yes…

The trust funds resources are there for the well-being of those who have paid into the Social Security System. We should use those resources to see that Social Security recipients are treated well but also treated fairly and treated equitably.

It is time for Congress, I think, to take its hands—and I add the President in on that—off the Social Security surpluses. Stop hiding the horrible truth of the fiscal irresponsibility that we have talked about here the past 2 weeks. It is time to return those dollars to the hands of those who earned them—the Social Security beneficiaries and future beneficiaries…

I think that is a very good illustration of what I was talking about, embezzlement, thievery. Because that, Mr. President, is what we are talking about here…On that chart in emblazoned red letters is what has been taking place here, embezzlement.


During the period of growth we have had during the past 10 years, the growth has been from two sources: One, a large credit card with no limits on it, and, two, we have been stealing money from the Social Security recipients of this country.



”I think that is a very good illustration of what I was talking about, embezzlement, thievery. Because that, Mr. President, is what we are talking about here…I publicly commend and applaud the vigorous activity generated by the Senator from New York because… on that chart in emblazoned red letters is what has been taking place here, embezzlement.”

Out of this heated debate on the issue of government misappropriation of Social Security money, came Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s proposal to cut Social Security taxes in order to deny the government access to the tempting surplus Social Security money. Senator Moynihan, who had been a strong supporter of the 1983 efforts to strengthen the Social Security system, was outraged that, instead of being used to build up the size of the Social Security Trust Fund for future retirees, as was intended, the Social Security surplus was being used to pay for general government spending.

President George H. W. Bush was furious over Moynihan’s proposal. In response to reporters’ questions, Bush replied, “It is an effort to get me to raise taxes on the American people by the charade of cutting them, or cut benefits, and I am not going to do it to the older people of this country.”

But President Bush was in fact taking money from a fund that was supposed to be used to provide for “the older people of this country” and using it to fund general government. Despite the strong efforts, way back in 1990, to put an end to the raiding of the Social Security trust fund, President George H.W. Bush continued to loot and spend every dollar of the Social Security surplus.

Later that day, Senator Moynihan responded to the president’s statement in a speech on the Senate floor. Moynihan said, “Mr. President…If there is a problem of dissimulation, I would suggest that it resides with the present practice of usingSocial Security trust funds as general revenues. My distinguished friend, the Republican Senator from Pennsylvania, Senator Heinz, has used a very direct word for this. He says it is called “embezzlement.”



Because Moynihan believed the American people were being deceived and betrayed, he proposed undoing the 1983 legislation by cutting Social Security taxes and returning the system to a “pay-as-you-go” basis which would have provided only enough revenue to take care of current retirees. Moynihan’s position was that, if the government could not keep its hands out of the Social Security cookie jar, the jar should be emptied so there would be no Social Security surplus



George H.W. Bush looted every penny of the Social Security surplus generated during his term, and Bill Clinton continued to treat the surplus as if it were general revenue. The money continued to be “embezzled” and spent, with almost nobody aware that the crime was taking place. However, the crime finally came to light again during the 2000 presidential campaign.



The unlawful spending of Social Security money for non-Social Security purposes, became a major campaign issue in 2000. Al Gore and George W. Bush both acknowledged that the government was spending Social Security revenue for non-Social Security purposes, and both candidates pledged to end the looting.

During his acceptance speech at the Democratic national convention, Al Gore announced that, if he was elected president, he would put Social Security funds into a Social Security lockbox for Social Security and for Social Security only. Gore’s dramatic announcement brought the looting of Social Security back into the limelight. When Senator Moynihan’s 1990 bill to repeal the 1983 payroll tax hike failed to become law, the looting of Social Security continued, unchanged, for another decade until the issue resurfaced during the 2000 presidential election campaign.



Bush also promised to keep his hands off Social Security money. Bush reiterated this pledge to the American people over and over, and further cemented it with a statement in his first State of the Union address, delivered on February 27, 2000. In no uncertain terms, Bush said, “To make sure the retirement savings of America’s seniors are not diverted to any other program, my budget protects all $2.6 trillion of the Social Security surplus for Social Security, and for Social Security alone.”



Like so many of his other promises, Bush broke that promise. He “embezzled” and spent every dollar of the surplus Social Security revenue generated during his two terms as president, making him the biggest contributor of all to the real Social Security problem.



In addition to the embezzlement under both Reagan and George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush looted and spent all of the Social Security surplus revenue that flowed in during their presidencies. So we can’t blame the whole problem on Reagan. He was just the one who figured out a way to use Social Security money as general revenue, and his successors followed his example.






Medicaid and Medicare are government-sponsored healthcare programs in the U.S. The programs differ in terms of how they are governed and funded, as well as in terms of who they cover.

Medicare is an insurance program that primarily covers seniors ages 65 and older and disabled individuals who qualify for Social Security, while Medicaid is an assistance program that covers low- to no-income families and individuals. Some may be eligible for both Medicaid and Medicare, depending on their circumstances. Under the Affordable Care Act (a.k.a., "Obamacare"), 26 states and the District of Columbia have recently expanded Medicaid, thus enabling many more to enroll in the program.

Comparison chart
Medicaid versus Medicare comparison chart
Medicaid Medicare
Overview Medicaid in the U.S. is an assistance program that covers the medical costs of low- to no-income families and individuals. Children are more likely than adults to be eligible for coverage. Medicare in the U.S. is an insurance program that primarily covers seniors ages 65 and older and disabled individuals of any age who qualify for Social Security. Also covers those of any age with end-stage renal disease.
Eligibility Requirements Strict income requirements related to Federal Poverty Level (FPL). With expansion under the Affordable Care Act, 26 states cover at or below 138% of FPL. States that opted out have a variety of income requirements. Regardless of income, anyone turning 65 can enroll in Medicare so long as they paid into Medicare / Social Security funds. People of any age with severe disabilities and end-stage renal disease are also eligible.

Services Covered Children more likely to have comprehensive coverage in all states than adults. Routine and emergency care, family planning, hospice, some substance and smoking cessation programs. Limited dental and vision. Routine and emergency care, hospice, family planning, some substance and smoking cessation programs. Limited dental and vision.

Cost to Enrollees Varies by state, with some imposing deductibles. Usually low, but much may depend on what little income one has. Part A costs nothing for those who paid Medicare taxes for 10 years or more (or had a spouse who did). Part B in 2014 costs $104.90/mo for most. Part D costs vary, usually around $30/mo. Medicare Advantage costs vary.
Governance Jointly governed by the federal and state governments. Affordable Care Act sought to make more Medicaid rules universal, but the Supreme Court ruled states could opt out. Entirely governed by the federal government.
Funding Variety of taxes, but most funding (~57%) comes from federal government. Sometimes hospitals are taxed at the state level. Along with Medicare, Medicaid accounts for roughly 25% of federal budget. Payroll taxes (namely, Medicare and Social Security taxes), interest earned on trust fund investments, and Medicare premiums. Along with Medicaid, Medicare accounts for roughly 25% of federal budget.
User Satisfaction Relatively high High
Populations Covered All states, D.C., territories, Native American reservations. Around 20% of population on Medicaid. 40% of all childbirths covered by it. Half of all regular AIDS/HIV patients. All states, D.C., U.S. territories, Native American reservations. Around 15% of population on Medicare.

How is Medicare funded?
The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), a branch of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), is the federal agency that runs the Medicare Program and monitors Medicaid programs offered by each state.
In 2011, Medicare covered 48.7 million people. Total expenditures in 2011 were $549.1 billion. This money comes from the Medicare Trust Funds.

Medicare Trust Funds
Medicare is paid for through 2 trust fund accounts held by the U.S. Treasury. These funds can only be used for Medicare.
Hospital Insurance (HI) Trust Fund
How is it funded?
• Payroll taxes paid by most employees, employers, and people who are self-employed
• Other sources, like income taxes paid on Social Security benefits, interest earned on the trust fund investments, and Medicare Part A premiums from people who aren't eligible for premium-free Part A


What does it pay for?
• Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance) benefits, like inpatient hospital care, skilled nursing facility care, home health care, and hospice care
• Medicare Program administration, like costs for paying benefits, collecting Medicare taxes, and combating fraud and abuse
Supplementary Medical Insurance (SMI) Trust Fund
How is it funded?
• Funds authorized by Congress
• Premiums from people enrolled in Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) and Medicare prescription ******* coverage (Part D)
• Other sources, like interest earned on the trust fund investments
What does it pay for?
• Part B benefits
• Part D
• Medicare Program administration, like costs for paying benefits and for combating fraud and abuse

Who pays for Medicare?
Medicare is funded by the Social Security Administration. Which means it's funded by taxpayers: We all pay 1.45% of our earnings into FICA - Federal Insurance Contributions Act - which go toward Medicare. Employers pay another 1.45%, bringing the total to 2.9%. (If you're self-employed, you must cough up the entire 2.9%.) The Medicare deduction on your paycheck might say FICA-HI. The HI refers to Health Insurance, and it's your premium cost for all Medicare coverage.

While the portion of our FICA taxes that cover payments into the Social Security system are levied only on the first $118,599 in earnings for 2016, the Medicare tax is levied on every penny you earn.
You will also pay some Medicare costs yourself when you start using the plan.
 
Interesting. It isn't about the Russian topic. And it certainly doesn't add any factual basis to the OP in this thread, which we are seeing more and more with every post, is devoid of fact, and is entirely opinion.

This said, Reagan's economic failures, if this is to be argued, were a direct result of compromising with liberals.

But we're off topic again, courtesy of subhub again.
 
Russian policy compared to Russian policy.

Ladies and gentlemen, in Zwang's view, these are different things. And although the topic has largely been whose Russian policy has been more effectual, Zwang's argument seems to be each policy has different goals.

/QUOTE]

So you are intellectually disingenuous. "Russian policy compared to Russian policy" is a false equivalency despite how you are trying to frame it.

non golfer: <Holds up a knife and spoon and shakes the knife while stating> This silverware cuts meat much more effectively that the silverware in my other hand.

You do indeed have a logic problem.
 
This said, Reagan's economic failures, if this is to be argued, were a direct result of compromising with liberals
Actually Reaganomics would have been a worse failure had it not been for the Democrats insisting that taxes be added to replace the huge tax cuts Reagan made. Remember how huge the Tax Cuts were ... a lot of lost revenue had it not been for shoring up SS, etc with additional taxes. Thing is, Reagan said he was going to increase the SS withholdings to shore up SS/Medicare, but then used a major part of those added taxes on his Star Wars bluff with Russia, and other spendings.
nongolfer, what you're not understanding is the true purpose of the huge income tax cuts Republicans give. From Reagan - forward it has been their intent to starve the entitlement plans OUT of existence by creating huge deficits and debt. In a true capitalistic society capitalism creates (by default) a poor working class of citizens, and also creates a filthy rich working class. This is nothing new in our history, by the way. Late 1800s-early 1900s was very similar, except Theodore Roosevelt stepped in to stop it. Its interesting reading, maybe you should go read about it.
 
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No logic problem A comprehension problem. And it's not my comprehension problem. We are talking about Russian policies, and results of Russian policies.

And again, you maintain we should NOT compare Russian policy to Russian policy, NOR the results of the two respective policies. Even though this is what we are talking about.

How exactly do you propose we compare the two policies, and the two sets of results?

And I asked how each policy was different? Do you know? You may search on Google if necessary. I'll give you a hint. If you post a CNN comparison, do not be surprised when I make fun of it, especially when compared to my posts of foreign policy experts.

You're not doing well. Dodging multiple questions, that should be easily answered. Since you seem so incredibly sure of yourself.
 
Actually Reaganomics would have been a worse failure had it not been for the Democrats insisting that taxes be added to replace the huge tax cuts Reagan made. Remember how huge the Tax Cuts were ... a lot of lost revenue had it not been for shoring up SS, etc with additional taxes. Thing is, Reagan said he was going to increase the SS withholdings to shore up SS/Medicare, but then used a major part of those added taxes on his Star Wars bluff with Russia, and other spendings.

Link?
 
False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which two completely opposing arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not.

So Russian policy is different than Russian policy? Same subject.

But you state different policies, with different goals. Policy is different, doesn't make this false.

What were the different goals? Did one policy want Russia to come out on top?
 
Facts don't support this statement. But you are right in one regard. Let's stay on topic.

Yes, they actually do. The deficit wasn't driven by military spending alone. And it didn't happen in a vacuum, there was a recession. What other spending was there? Who did he compromise with on this?

As an aside, his military spending is largely credited with ending the cold war.
 
False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which two completely opposing arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not.

So Russian policy is different than Russian policy? Same subject.

But you state different policies, with different goals. Policy is different, doesn't make this false.

What were the different goals? Did one policy want Russia to come out on top?
Spin baby spin. You are comparing pre Crimea invasion policy to post Crimea invasion policy.

Sad!
 
....Link? Are you some kind of NUT, nongolfer? Go read about Reaganomics, you moron. Reagan began the new Republican platform of "deficit spending" and "tax cuts pay for themselves" ... the results, however, on a macro & micro economics scale have proven over and over that supply side economics did not work as the Republicans applied it. You see, Republicans made major tax cuts to appease the wealthiest and their consituents, then didn't have the BALLS to make the huge spending cuts to the entitlement programs needed to support the tax cuts and loss of revenue. Most of us LIVED through that ... that's recent history. The national debt, when Reagan took office was under a trillion dollars; the national debt when GW Bush left office was over $10 trillion ... the only democrat president to hold office between Reagan & GW Bush was Bill Clinton, and he certainly didn't raise the national debt by much ... in fact, created a spending surplus when he left office. If you want to read about it, but not research this, just start at post #1 in the Politics, Politics, Politics thread ... all the graphs etc are right there.
....You're a nuisance ... you're always wanting links and proof, and never providing any to your own BS comments.
 
As an aside, his military spending is largely credited with ending the cold war
... and at what risk? It was an arms race with Reagan spending billions on a fake Star Wars project. Reagan figured if we got into a arms race with Russia their economy would collapse before the US economy collapsed. He did NOT know that for sure, but risked it to avoid a nuclear war with Russia, and it did work, but created a huge national debt.
 
President Trump shared highly confidential information with the Russians in his first "private meeting" with them in Washington (Sergey Lavrov-Russian Foreign Minister) & Sergey Kislyak (Ambassador to the US) ... no one from our country, not even an interpreter was in the room when he did it. Later, President Trump admitted that he did it.
In Hellsinki, once again, Trump meets in private ... only an interpreter in the room which Republicans will not allow to be questioned ... no one knows what information he shared or what agreements he made with MrPutin. No One!
Now, MrPutin is coming to Washington and again, they'll probably meet in private .... aren't ANY of you conservatives the least bit concerned as to why President Trump insists on meeting our Russian adversaries in PRIVATE? None of you?
 
Spin baby spin. You are comparing pre Crimea invasion policy to post Crimea invasion policy.

Sad!


When was Crimea invaded? Would you agree that from the point Crimea was invaded, we'd be in post Crimea invasion policy period? Is Crimea teh only facet of Russian policy? Do things not change geopolitically, and exist while a policy is being implemented?

Spin Baby Spin, indeed.

You're not helping whatever point you are attempting to make here.

Are you able to answer these simple questions?
 
President Trump shared highly confidential information with the Russians in his first "private meeting" with them in Washington (Sergey Lavrov-Russian Foreign Minister) & Sergey Kislyak (Ambassador to the US) ... no one from our country, not even an interpreter was in the room when he did it. Later, President Trump admitted that he did it.
In Hellsinki, once again, Trump meets in private ... only an interpreter in the room which Republicans will not allow to be questioned ... no one knows what information he shared or what agreements he made with MrPutin. No One!
Now, MrPutin is coming to Washington and again, they'll probably meet in private .... aren't ANY of you conservatives the least bit concerned as to why President Trump insists on meeting our Russian adversaries in PRIVATE? None of you?


No, as I have posted, this has happened with Presidents as far back as one can remember. The difference is that Trump's conversations were illegally leaked.

I mean if it was illegal for a President to declassify at his discretion, why no criminal charges? And if it was unusaul for Presiendts to meet privaelty with P U T I N, with no one present, why have alll recent President done exactly this.

Just like when Obama had a meeting with P U T I N, without even an interpreter present. Were you this concerned then? Better question, were you even aware?
 
....Link? Are you some kind of NUT, nongolfer? Go read about Reaganomics, you moron. Reagan began the new Republican platform of "deficit spending" and "tax cuts pay for themselves" ... the results, however, on a macro & micro economics scale have proven over and over that supply side economics did not work as the Republicans applied it. You see, Republicans made major tax cuts to appease the wealthiest and their consituents, then didn't have the BALLS to make the huge spending cuts to the entitlement programs needed to support the tax cuts and loss of revenue. Most of us LIVED through that ... that's recent history. The national debt, when Reagan took office was under a trillion dollars; the national debt when GW Bush left office was over $10 trillion ... the only democrat president to hold office between Reagan & GW Bush was Bill Clinton, and he certainly didn't raise the national debt by much ... in fact, created a spending surplus when he left office. If you want to read about it, but not research this, just start at post #1 in the Politics, Politics, Politics thread ... all the graphs etc are right there.
....You're a nuisance ... you're always wanting links and proof, and never providing any to your own BS comments.


So what you are saying is you cannot provide a link. I didn't ask for a wall of text. I simply asked for a link to prove your made up post is real.

Now any reasonable person can see what your post is. A wall of largely made up text, but no factual basis, and nothing existing to support it.
 
No, as I have posted, this has happened with Presidents as far back as one can remember. The difference is that Trump's conversations were illegally leaked.
The Russians provided their own recording; no 'leaks' ... the US got a copy of the meeting, verified it with Trump, and reported it.
I mean if it was illegal for a President to declassify at his discretion, why no criminal charges? And if it was unusaul for Presiendts to meet privaelty with P U T I N, with no one present, why have alll recent President done exactly this.
Name one President who has met privately with an adversary in which no recording of the meeting exists, nongolfer. You keep repeating this fact less statement, then provide no proof. It certainly isn't in Google ... there are transcripts, interpreters, etc that exists. Just not of Trump and his meetings with Russians.
President Trump is a notorious LIAR, surely you know that by now ... hell, he's lied at least 20-30 times in the past couple weeks. He's still denying that he knew nothing of the "Russian hacking" before he became President.
Just like when Obama had a meeting with P U T I N, without even an interpreter present. Were you this concerned then? Better question, were you even aware?
Source??? ... You keep saying this ... prove this in some way or shut up about it. I couldn't find a thing.
 
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