don't we all!
Politics, Politics, Politics
- Thread starter falcondfw69
- Start date
that would be from personal experience because it looks like that could apply to you!
as usual your version of the facts are pretty much just opinions and do not agree with the worlds!
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In reality the attack was a failure from all points of view. None of out aircraft carriers were at Pearl Harbor. All but three of the ship sunk were returned to service. The USS Arizona was too badly damaged to salvage, the USS Oklahoma was raised but deemed obsolete, the Utah was deemed obsolete and was never raised, sometime in the early 1970's a memorial was built over her resting place. The purpose of the attack was to take out the Pacific fleet and it failed abysmally. Most of the attacking forces armor piercing bombs were projectiles from their battleships that had fins attached. The intent of the attack was to destroy the Pacific Fleet. The Japanese thought it would be at least 1946 before we could have a viable fleet in the Pacific, by that time they would have consolidated their conquests in Asia then either negotiate a peace with the U.S. or attack the U.S. directly. The attack failed to destroy the Pacific fleet and as Yamamoto predicted it seriously pissed off the United States
Yamamoto was a brilliant leader, Yamamoto and Billy Mitchell were the first ones that understood that the new capital ship was the air craft carrier. Yamamoto was educated at Harvard and spent some time touring the United States probably a good part of his travels were for intelligence gathering purposes. He opposed attacking the United States because he had an understanding of what the United States could do if provoked. After Pearl Harbor the Japanese Navy had little success against the United States. At the Battle of the Coral Sea May 4-8 was the first Carrier lead major battle. The battle was pretty a draw, which was better than the U.S. expected and far worse than the Japanese expected. Then from June 4 to June 7 1942 we fought the battle of Midway and handed the Japanese a serious defeat. On April 18, 1943 at Bougainville Island. Papua New Guinea we assassinated him in one of the most amazing special operations of WWII.
Couple of Yamamoto trivia, his first name Isoroku is the age of Yamsmoto's ******* when he was born. Some accounts say it is 56 others say 69 and I never bothered to look it up. Apparently dad was proud he could still get it and impregnate his wife at a mature age
Yamamoto's ******* was a school teacher and Yamamoto was one of the greatest military leaders of the 20th century, but Yamamoto stipulated that his tombstone be precisely one inch shorter than his *******'s
The pilot that is credited with killing Yamamoto I think his last name was Lamphier went to work as an airline pilot after the war, the company was doing a round the world flight to promote air travel and when they stopped to refuel in Japan they were met by Yamamoto's widow. The Japanese government thought is would be a good conciliatory gesture.
Some months ago I got into a conversation with a young man about WWII. He told me that if we hadn't bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki the Japanese would have never bombed Pearl Harbor. I explained that Pearl Harbor was attacked in 1941 and Hiroshima and Nagasaki had been bombed in 1945. The little twit just looked at me and said I needed to get my facts straight. I sometimes wonder what our history will look like 200 years from now
Why am I not surprised...
was it?...he proved our vulnerability!
and not according to the Japanese...read the article!
what I posted was from history records...but like your friend you can have your own version....rather than admit you were wrong!
I will agree that their intent was to destroy that fleet and they didn't...but how many lives lost? the shear balls it took to attack us and etc.... no in his country he was a hero!...until we shot him down while doing a tour promoting Japanese propaganda.....and even that was shear luck on our part...weather delayed his flight and we were able to get him...even though we had spent time and money making the distance to get him...it was luck!
and as for your "friend" having a different version of the facts...if he served at that time he would be how old? and we all know as we get older the memory is usually the first to go!
that's why the military keeps very accurate records...recording things at the time!...so they don't vary over the years
I have found in my dealings with the military they have a better recollection of my record than I do...seem to know dates/people times and places ...all logged very well
I fell off a tank playing war games at Ft. Riley Ks......injured my shoulder they had a statement from my commanding officer..date/time and who was there to witness...records from the hospital Dr. on my injury!...and this was years ago
a friend of mine served in Korea and he filed and said the same thing... the military keeps records! and has clear back to the civil war!
so I would trust their records over someone else's version of events
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guess that means you wholeheartedly agree
Must be bored?
Boring ... almost the same!
All these news updates lately of all the Trump members having "private servers" ... 5 of them, now ... yet, not a word from Republicans. I wonder why?
[QUOTE="subhub174014, post: 1529170, member: 60485"
was it?...he proved our vulnerability!
and not according to the Japanese...read the article!
what I posted was from history records...but like your friend you can have your own version....rather than admit you were wrong!
I will agree that their intent was to destroy that fleet and they didn't...but how many lives lost? the shear balls it took to attack us and etc.... no in his country he was a hero!...until we shot him down while doing a tour promoting Japanese propaganda.....and even that was shear luck on our part...weather delayed his flight and we were able to get him...even though we had spent time and money making the distance to get him...it was luck!
and as for your "friend" having a different version of the facts...if he served at that time he would be how old? and we all know as we get older the memory is usually the first to go!
that's why the military keeps very accurate records...recording things at the time!...so they don't vary over the years
I have found in my dealings with the military they have a better recollection of my record than I do...seem to know dates/people times and places ...all logged very well
I fell off a tank playing war games at Ft. Riley Ks......injured my shoulder they had a statement from my commanding officer..date/time and who was there to witness...records from the hospital Dr. on my injury!...and this was years ago
a friend of mine served in Korea and he filed and said the same thing... the military keeps records! and has clear back to the civil war!
so I would trust their records over someone else's version of events[/QUOTE
It was a political, tactical and strategic failure. Yamamoto did the best he could with what he had. The armor piercing bombs they used were naval shell with fins attached because they had no armor piercing bombs for the attach. The object of the attack was to eliminate the U.S. Pacific Fleet. Yamamoto clearly understood the Japan could not win a war of attrition with the United Staes. The Battle at Midway clearly demonstrated that
The attack was a political failure because it galvanized the U.S. population. We were in the throes of the Great Depression. The unemployment rate in the United States hovered around 16%. Most people had no interest in what the Japanese may or may no do. Pearl Harbor changed that. It was a political boon for Roosevelt, the New Deal was petering out and things didn't look so good. As the old adage goes "Was is good for business". There are those that claim that Roosevelt wanted the war to save his political ass. The commander at Pearl got hung out to dry, it ended his career. As to Roosevelt be complicit I haven't seen anything that indicates he actively pursued war. However he pursued policies that clearly gave Japan the impression that war was in thier best interests
The attack was a strategic failure because it utterly failed in it's objective and demonstrated that Billy Mitchell was right. The new capital ship was the aircraft carrier. Unfortunately Mitchell had died about 5 years earlier. Si early on the war effort was to build aircraft carriers not battleships
The attack was a tactical failure because in the end it was a waste of resources because of the political and strategic failures it caused.
For something as mundane as a training injury I would tend to agree that military records are reasonably accurate. However battle records can be inaccurate. When we got Yamamoto three pilots claimed to have shot down a Betty bomber. Intelligence sources indicated that there would be on Betty with *******. It turned out there were two bombers. Yamamoto's was shot down and crashed in the jungle with loss of all on board. The other crashed into the water and there were survivor's one of whom went on to become president of Caterpillar's Japanese operations. We didn't find out until after the war that there had only been two planes
Yamamoto was killed while on an inspection tour. Not a propaganda tour.
The whole get Yamamoto operation came about in just a few days. The flight of P-38 had to fly a dogleg route on the deck to avoid detection.If I recall ir was about 1200 miles 0n the deck, very dangerous In the planning someone pointed out that the compass in the Lightning wasn't precise enough to do the required navigation. So they yanked the compass out of a Navy destroyer and somehow stuffed it into the pilots' gondola on the lead plane. I would have loved to see how they did that. Yamamoto was renowned for being punctual the intercept was less than two minutes from the projected time. We flew recon over the area for sometime to reduce the chance that the Japanese would figure out we had broken their code.
Being former Navy the war in the Pacific has always held my interest. I have read and listened to countless accounts of actions during the war. You haven't demonstrated even a decent rudimentary understanding of the events leading up to the war and to the war itself. I seriously doubt you have anything that will sway my knowledge of events. Sometimes I think you disagree just to be disagreeable.
was it?...he proved our vulnerability!
and not according to the Japanese...read the article!
what I posted was from history records...but like your friend you can have your own version....rather than admit you were wrong!
I will agree that their intent was to destroy that fleet and they didn't...but how many lives lost? the shear balls it took to attack us and etc.... no in his country he was a hero!...until we shot him down while doing a tour promoting Japanese propaganda.....and even that was shear luck on our part...weather delayed his flight and we were able to get him...even though we had spent time and money making the distance to get him...it was luck!
and as for your "friend" having a different version of the facts...if he served at that time he would be how old? and we all know as we get older the memory is usually the first to go!
that's why the military keeps very accurate records...recording things at the time!...so they don't vary over the years
I have found in my dealings with the military they have a better recollection of my record than I do...seem to know dates/people times and places ...all logged very well
I fell off a tank playing war games at Ft. Riley Ks......injured my shoulder they had a statement from my commanding officer..date/time and who was there to witness...records from the hospital Dr. on my injury!...and this was years ago
a friend of mine served in Korea and he filed and said the same thing... the military keeps records! and has clear back to the civil war!
so I would trust their records over someone else's version of events[/QUOTE
It was a political, tactical and strategic failure. Yamamoto did the best he could with what he had. The armor piercing bombs they used were naval shell with fins attached because they had no armor piercing bombs for the attach. The object of the attack was to eliminate the U.S. Pacific Fleet. Yamamoto clearly understood the Japan could not win a war of attrition with the United Staes. The Battle at Midway clearly demonstrated that
The attack was a political failure because it galvanized the U.S. population. We were in the throes of the Great Depression. The unemployment rate in the United States hovered around 16%. Most people had no interest in what the Japanese may or may no do. Pearl Harbor changed that. It was a political boon for Roosevelt, the New Deal was petering out and things didn't look so good. As the old adage goes "Was is good for business". There are those that claim that Roosevelt wanted the war to save his political ass. The commander at Pearl got hung out to dry, it ended his career. As to Roosevelt be complicit I haven't seen anything that indicates he actively pursued war. However he pursued policies that clearly gave Japan the impression that war was in thier best interests
The attack was a strategic failure because it utterly failed in it's objective and demonstrated that Billy Mitchell was right. The new capital ship was the aircraft carrier. Unfortunately Mitchell had died about 5 years earlier. Si early on the war effort was to build aircraft carriers not battleships
The attack was a tactical failure because in the end it was a waste of resources because of the political and strategic failures it caused.
For something as mundane as a training injury I would tend to agree that military records are reasonably accurate. However battle records can be inaccurate. When we got Yamamoto three pilots claimed to have shot down a Betty bomber. Intelligence sources indicated that there would be on Betty with *******. It turned out there were two bombers. Yamamoto's was shot down and crashed in the jungle with loss of all on board. The other crashed into the water and there were survivor's one of whom went on to become president of Caterpillar's Japanese operations. We didn't find out until after the war that there had only been two planes
Yamamoto was killed while on an inspection tour. Not a propaganda tour.
The whole get Yamamoto operation came about in just a few days. The flight of P-38 had to fly a dogleg route on the deck to avoid detection.If I recall ir was about 1200 miles 0n the deck, very dangerous In the planning someone pointed out that the compass in the Lightning wasn't precise enough to do the required navigation. So they yanked the compass out of a Navy destroyer and somehow stuffed it into the pilots' gondola on the lead plane. I would have loved to see how they did that. Yamamoto was renowned for being punctual the intercept was less than two minutes from the projected time. We flew recon over the area for sometime to reduce the chance that the Japanese would figure out we had broken their code.
Being former Navy the war in the Pacific has always held my interest. I have read and listened to countless accounts of actions during the war. You haven't demonstrated even a decent rudimentary understanding of the events leading up to the war and to the war itself. I seriously doubt you have anything that will sway my knowledge of events. Sometimes I think you disagree just to be disagreeable.
Probably because they are still waiting for the stuff from the Clinton's email serversBoring ... almost the same!
All these news updates lately of all the Trump members having "private servers" ... 5 of them, now ... yet, not a word from Republicans. I wonder why?
This isn't going to have any great graphics or really big print but something comes to mind that Tom Perez said a few months ago when asked why the Democrats took such a beating in the last general election. He said "They lost because they weren't there for the American people but they will be there to oppose Trump." That sounds remarkably like the attitude that the Democrats accused the Republicans of. And for those Democrats that don't know Perez is the DNC chairman
just like most republicans.... just can't get past Clinton....and refuse to see they were are twice what any republican in office has been clear back to past Reagan!
Yeah because you would just have to make up some more bullshit and claim it as fact. Are you ever fucking wrong? Like seriously i have never seen anyone one this board act like they know more ******* than you. See i only like to chime in on ******* when i know what i am talking about. I dont pretend to know everything about everything like you do. You just know everything apparently. You should run for office cause your def a politician and completly full of *******.
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Orlando Sentinel
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Roy Moore, brash conservative, wins Alabama Republican Senate primary over Trump-endorsed candidate
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still crying over the fact you put your foot in your mouth?
and now trying to defend someone who did the same
as for being wrong....I thought I was once...but turned out to be a typo
hahhaa
as for you.... you like guns and THINK you know all about them and you don't
I don't either and don't claim to.... but I do pay attention to history I enjoy reading all about it!
want to talk Indian fighting?....read a lot on that also...especially the most ruthless tribe...the comanchee
as for Torp...he is one of those that thinks because he is educated...it makes him an expert on everything and his "facts and opinion" should just be excepted...not true!
he is so far to the right most of what he posts is opinions.... and the rest we are supposed to buy because he has an education...again not true!
I don't claim to know everything or even a lot..... but history and politics... I pay attention to!
history because I enjoy it...politics because I want to know!
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