We need to get serious with ISIS

Why did I have an idea the meaning of the posts would go right over your head? before the rest of my posts...You seem fixated on everyone hating Americans when the truth is they don't. They hate American policy.


As I said I will post more on what you perceive and what is actual.
OK, so what should american foreign policy be. How about pull out of every country that we have troops stationed in the world and never help any country again. What would the world look like then. just totally ignore all thats going on in the rest of the world.

You think that would make everyone like us then. You think ISIS would be like, america is cool now they dont meddle in anyone affairs.
 
Why did I have an idea the meaning of the posts would go right over your head? before the rest of my posts...You seem fixated on everyone hating Americans when the truth is they don't. They hate American policy.


As I said I will post more on what you perceive and what is actual.
You seem to think that a passive foreign policy will fix everyones hatred of America or as you say american foreign policy
 
So ... let me get this straight. By that graphic, you are saying we should just ignore dictators who commit war crimes against their own people? That is in essence what your graphic says.
Something needs to be done, but we need to be more careful about what we do, who we do it against, and what will follow. For example, a good idea is not telling the enemy our troop strength or our withdrawl date. And it definitely is not a good idea to hand over 5 of the enemy's generals when the war is still going on.
It's no wonder that you seem to be the most gullible poster sometimes on this website. If you believe the USA invaded Iraq and took out Hussein over "war crimes against his people" ... I'd like to clue you in on some insider information about another Jade Helm invasion of Texas that's coming in the early Spring of 2016. Call your Texas governor ... its an election year coming up; he'd love to feed the citizens of Texas an inside scoop on the President & liberals.
Here, I'll try to give you a clue as to why the USA took out Hussein ...
pic_political-DickCheneyHalburton.jpg ...............GIF_GrouchoMarx.gif
 
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...... falcond let me ask YOU a question ... why do 25% of the countries in the world NOT have a US ambassador? What about Mexico ... without an US ambassador for 2 years now. Its not because President Obama hasn't selected an ambassador to Mexico, or to Norway/Sweden which share boarders with Russia. Don't you think that we would want a US ambassador in countries that are our friends or share boarders with us or our adversaries? Why don't you go investigate as to WHY we don't have ambassadors in many of these countries in this world? It's certainly not because our President doesn't want to place a US representative in these countries ... but there is a reason.
.......Don't you think, with our fear (particularly Republicans) of being invaded by terrorists coming up from Mexico, or with the number of illegal Hispanics crossing into the US through Mexico, that it might be a good idea to have a US ambassador IN Mexico?
Mac
 
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...... falcond let me ask YOU a question ... why do 25% of the countries in the world NOT have a US ambassador? What about Mexico ... without a US ambassador for 2 years now. Its not because President Obama hasn't selected an ambassador to Mexico, or to Norway/Sweden which share boarders with Russia. Don't you think that we would want a US ambassador in countries that are our friends or share boarders with us or our adversaries? Why don't you go investigate as to WHY we don't have ambassadors in many of these countries in this world? It's certainly not because our President doesn't want to place a US representative in these countries ... but there is a reason.
.......Don't you think, with our fear (particularly Republicans) of being invaded by terrorists coming up from Mexico, or with the number of illegal Hispanics crossing into the US through Mexico, that it might be a good idea to have a US ambassador IN Mexico? Why not go check it out and find out WHY we don't have these ambassadors in these key countries. Please get back to me!
Mac
Yes Mac. There is a reason. A very good reason. Since Obama won't even have the Republican Congressional Leaders (useless tossers) in the White House to discuss ANY kind of major legislation in a form of negotiation (dictating is NOT negotiating, in case you did not know), they are using some of the only leverage they have. Reid wants to pull parliamentary measures to block anything the Republicans want to do, but you seem to conveniently forget about that.

And Mac, what the hell good would an ambassador do against terrorists determined to get into the country illegally? Is his office on the border? Is he issuing the orders to halt deportations one minute and increase them the next? No. He would be no more than a figurehead running into his Mexican counterpart's office everyday and saying "We;re rather upset that so many illegals are coming across our border.". Next day - "We're really getting quite perturbed that illegals are crossing the border.". Next day - "Now we're REALLY miffed.". Those Executive edicts come from one place. You know where and I know where. So stop with the BS and get a clue. The only way an ambassador would have any effect on terrorists trying to get into the country illegally is to stick him on the border and put an M-16 in his hands with the authority to use it!
 
It's no wonder that you seem to be the most gullible poster sometimes on this website. If you believe the USA invaded Iraq and took out Hussein over "war crimes against his people" ... I'd like to clue you on some insider information about another Jade Helm invasion of Texas that's coming in the early Spring of 2016. Call your Texas governor ... its an election year coming up; he'd love to feed the citizens of Texas an inside scoop on the President & liberals.
Here, I'll try to give you a clue as to why the USA took out Hussein ...
View attachment 740076 ...............View attachment 740077
I would LOVE to see the source for this one. Media Matters? Huff Post? CNN?
Since we never sold any Iraq oil on the open market and allowed them to sell it and keep the profits, I seriously doubt your statement. Now, did they make money on rebuilding the infrastructure that was destroyed? Of course they did. And they should have. It is called business and it is done all over the world. Would you prefer those contracts went to a russian or german company? Oh, I'm sorry. Maybe you would, Comrade.
 
I have more important things to worry about than you tonight. Go away.
You're the ONE that keeps ADDRESSING ME ... falcond ... I swear I think you're masochistic. Or maybe, you're just waiting on your "support team" to show up? Why not just take my earlier suggestion ... you know what it is.
 
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I would LOVE to see the source for this one. Media Matters? Huff Post? CNN?
... and post # 125 proves ALL that needs to be proven about "getting a clue".

Let me use your words ... "let me get this straight" .... these reports, and there are many of them, are lying? Is that what you are saying?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...urton-kbr-and-iraq-war-contracting-history-s/
http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/29/news/companies/halliburton_earns/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/24/AR2006102401237.html

I'll look for one through a Fox News source ... I feel fairly sure I'll locate one or two. Seems Fox News is all you might trust.
Mac
 
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This was posted in 2001.

On Why Various Countries Hate the US

Noam Chomsky, discussion with Robert Siegel
All Things Considered, October 12, 2001

ROBERT SIEGEL, host: In an address to a Labour Party conference last week, British Prime Minister Tony Blair had this to say about the events of September 11th.

Prime Minister TONY BLAIR (Great Britain): Understand the causes of terror. Yes, we should try, but let there be no moral ambiguity about this. Nothing could ever justify the events of 11th of September, and it is to turn justice on its head to pretend it could.

SIEGEL: In the intellectual debate over how the US should respond to terrorism it is not simply hawks vs. doves, nor is it as simple as those who would restrict the focus to Osama bin Laden vs. those who advise also going after states that support terrorism, like Iraq or perhaps Syria. There is another divide, as NPR’s Margot Adler reports.

MARGOT ADLER reporting:

Although it was pretty much ignored when it was published last year, there’s a book that’s been selling briskly ever since the September 11th attacks. The book is called “Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire.” The author, Chalmers Johnson, is a former cold warrior and Asian scholar at the University of California, now retired, who believes that now that the Soviet Union is no more, America must pull back from its overextended reach. The term blowback, says Johnson, was coined by the CIA in the 1950s to refer to unintended consequences of covert operations that come back to haunt the United States. At the time the term was coined, he says, the prime example was the assassination of Iran’s premier, Muhammad Mussadegh.

Mr. CHALMERS JOHNSON (Author, “Blowback”): The result of this egregious interference in the affairs of Iran was to bring the shah to power and 25 years of repression and tyranny, leading finally to the holding of the entire US Embassy in Tehran hostage for over a year and the revolution of the Ayatollah Khomeini.

ADLER: Turning to the current crisis, another instance of blowback would be helping the mujaheddin in Afghanistan and fostering extreme Islamic movements in the fight against the Soviet Union. As Noam Chomsky, a professor of linguistics at MIT and a longtime critic of US policy, puts it…

Professor NOAM CHOMSKY (MIT): I mean, the US bears major responsibility for what happened in Afghanistan in the last 20 years.

Afghanistan was exploited for US purposes as a base for a war against the Russians. And that’s the source of the terrorist networks, the blowback that Chalmers Johnson’s talking about correctly. In the 1990s, when the Russians were out, that country was just torn to shreds by warring militias, a lot of them which we had supported and often continued to support.

ADLER: And by not rebuilding the country and supplying aid, Chomsky argues the United States further fueled Islamic movements leading to the Taliban. Countering the blowback thesis in an article in The New Republic, editor Peter Beinart argues that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan did most of the funding and training of the mujaheddin. Perhaps if we had intervened more, he argues, we would have averted this crisis. He agrees partly with Chomsky about US responsibility for the Taliban in the 1990s after the Cold War.

Mr. PETER BEINART (Editor, The New Republic): When the Soviets left, the country fell into civil war and it was that hideous civil war that the United States washed its hands of that allowed the religious students from the Pakistani border to move north and capture more and more territory until eventually they got to Kabul.

ADLER: In fact, Beinart argues that the US abandonment of Afghanistan after the Soviet Union’s demise was of a piece with its abandonment of Liberia, Somalia and the Congo. In each instance, he says, our lack of intervention provided a fertile ground for terrorism.

For Chalmers Johnson, the idea of blowback puts things in historical context. This is the cost of empire. This is not America’s new war, as certain media organizations have called it.

Mr. JOHNSON: A large number of people around the world obviously believe they’ve been at war with us over the last 20 years and finally just scored.

ADLER: In an editorial in The Washington Post, Michael Kelly calls the idea that the United States is reaping the fruits of imperialism a position that condones evil. And columnists such as Charles Krauthammer, William Kristal and Christopher Hitchens have said much the same. But none has articulated this position as concisely as New York’s mayor, Rudolph Giuliani, in his address to the United Nations on October 1st.

Mayor RUDOLPH GIULIANI (New York City): You’re either with civilization or with terrorists. On one side is democracy, the rule of law and respect for human life. On the other is tyranny, arbitrary executions and mass *******. Those who practice terrorism lose any right to have their cause understood by decent people and lawful nations.

ADLER: But Chomsky argues that the resentment of the United States in much of the Middle East is not based on a hatred of democracy and freedom; it is based on America’s lack of support for democratic governments. Chomsky points to US ties with Saudi Arabia, America’s support of what he calls apartheid like practices toward Palestinians in Israel, and the impact of sanctions against Iraq on children and civilians.

Prof. CHOMSKY: It has nothing to do with our values. In fact, they’re objecting to the fact–openly and overtly, to the fact that we oppose democracy in the region. One of the main things stressed by the monied Muslims is US opposition to democratic tendency.

ADLER: Peter Beinart refutes these arguments one by one. Take the charge that US sanctions against Iraq have led to the death of innocent children. Iraq, he argues, has enough oil for export to fill its hospitals with medicine and the bellies of its children with food.

Mr. BEINART: You can look at the case of the Kurdish-UN run areas in the north, which are subject to exactly the same UN sanctions regime but where hostel supplies are not resold for arms and to build houses as they are under Saddam, but are in fact used for the people’s benefit. And you see, in fact, the ******* mortality rates are better than they were before the start of the Gulf War. So I vehemently reject the idea that just because people in certain parts of the world hate us means we deserve hatred. And that seems to me, I must say, a certain particular pathology of the American left.

ADLER: But it is not only the left that sees negative consequences from America’s expansive reach. Ted Galen Carpenter is vice president for defense and foreign policy studies for the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank. While Carpenter is supportive of strategic US military action in response to the September 11th attacks, he accepts much of the blowback argument.

Mr. TED GALEN CARPENTER (Cato Institute): Has American policy increased the risk of terrorism? I think that needs to be a key question. When we decide to intervene, we now know what the potential cost might be. And it’s not just intervention in the Middle East.

Could a Balkan extremist someday attack a target in the United States?

If we’re honest with ourselves, there’s going to be a much shorter list of things that we might do in the world that we’re going to judge will truly be worth incurring that kind of risk.

ADLER: Even before the US bombing of Afghanistan, many conservatives berated the left for its pacifism. Many on the left countered, ‘Where were you when we were defending women against the Taliban?’ Now they argue that bombing Afghanistan gives bin Laden the very holy war he wants. But what’s striking about this debate is that it’s not only taking place in small magazines like The Nation and The National Review. It’s appearing in national newspapers like The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today. As Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair wrote in their left magazine CounterPunch two weeks ago, ‘If Americans utterly decline to think about their history, that would imply a sense of absolute moral and historical self-assurance equivalent to that of bin Laden. So far,’ they said, ‘that has not happened.’ Margot Adler, NPR News, New York.

CHOMSKY.INFO


So here we have three different reasons/opinions/thoughts on why America is hated/mistrusted/disliked. But notice the themes.

One says its attitude of Americans by other nations populous due to their ideals or behavior/having nukes. Interfering/ having really bad news and TV shows. Yes fox crap I'm talking about you. Yet they mention the US's policies four times out of the ten. If you take the tongue in cheek remarks over Americans abroad, the TV, sports, out of the equation you're left with policies,perceived attitudes/resentment, and nukes.

The seconds poses the theory that the reason why countries hate the US are policies and GNP / finance related. While they have a good point, and resentment can and does breed a dislike/hatred of those who have, by those who do not. Its not the cause. Its a correlation of factors. Policies/financial instability/human rights and attitudes to mention a few. But look again at what is prevalent in the reasoning. policies.

The third and last poses the theory that US policies are the main reasons.

So what do we have. Three different sources all saying basically the same thing. People do not hate the American people as a whole. Just their governments attitude and behavior when implementing the US's foreign policies

OK . So why has US policy led to the US government holding the tails of so many angry tigers?

And yes we will be getting to Domestic and International terrorism. But first. Do you guys want me to stop and shut up? or continue the posts. I'm not trying to make the US or its people look bad. Just explain the difference between hatred for the US v its people. Let me know please.
 
You're the ONE that keeps ADDRESSING ME ... falcond ... I swear I think you're masochistic. Or maybe, you're just waiting on your "support team" to show up? Why not just take my earlier suggestion ... you know what it is.
I do, because you keep posting one sided drivel. There has to be a balance. As there is with Daphne's posts in this thread. She is just trying to inform, not influence. That is a big difference you do not seem to be capable of.
 
... and post # 125 proves ALL that needs to be proven about "getting a clue".

Let me use your words ... "let me get this straight" .... these reports, and there are many of them, are lying? Is that what you are saying?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...urton-kbr-and-iraq-war-contracting-history-s/
http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/29/news/companies/halliburton_earns/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/24/AR2006102401237.html

I'll look for one through a Fox News source ... I feel fairly sure I'll locate one or two. Seems Fox News is all you might trust.
Mac

as I suspected - CNN, politicrack, and WA PO (this wouldn't be the same wapo making negative cartoons out of Ted Cruz's family and no one else's would it? One they had to publicly apologize for?). Yeah, REALLY conservative or neutrl publications you picked there. Why am I not surprised? NEXT!!!!!
 
View attachment 740207 .......hummmm, what is THIS I found in the View attachment 740219 archives? The stench in their basement was terrible; glad I don't go there very often. :(
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2003/12/12/pentagon-halliburton-overcharged-in-iraq.html View attachment 740206
From your own article:

But the company, formerly headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, apparently didn't profit from the discrepancy, according to officials who briefed reporters Thursday on condition of anonymity. The problem, the officials said, was that Halliburton may have paid a Kuwaiti subcontractor too much for the gasoline in the first place.

In case you hadn't checked the law, Mac, it is not illegal to be stupid. As you said with your cutesy icons OUCH!!!! Again, next!! Nothing sinister about being stupid and nothing illegal about overcharging if they were overcharged for it.
And by the way, I suppose you are not familiar with federal election law where those holding a private office not only have to give up all ties to that office, but also any financial involvement if they want to run for high public office? No. I am sure that was just an oversight on your part.
Your crap is not passing the smell test. You have an agenda as a liberal operative and an agenda to demonize GWB and Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and you are going to do it come hell or high water. Bush made a lot of mistakes. So did Cheney and Rumsfeld, but legally, Cheney could not profit from his former ties to Haliburton, while he was in office or he would be in the Federal Pen. He is not, so he did not.
You are always on me about move on from Hillary's email servers and Benghazi (BTW, exposing classified documents - as the FBI is finding she did - is a federal crime punishable by up to 10 years in federal pen. and a $250,000 fine, UCMJ. If you had served or worked for a company that dealt with such, you would know this.) per incident. They have found over 1000 such violations on her email server, that they have published. You keep saying to move on. It is over. I will move on, when you move on with your excuses about GWB, Rumsfield, and Cheney.
You are so easy to see through. You claim to not be a Democrat, but a Progressive. That's fine. I'm willing to grant you that (you can add your snarky comment here). But it seems to me there was, up until about 4 or 5 years ago, another group that claimed the "Progressive" label. Hmmmm. Now who was it? Why yes! It was the Communist Party of America. So which are you? A communist who hasn't updated to the modern label for the party? Or a liberal with an agenda?
 
......That Fox News article is not mine, falcond ....... you wouldn't expect Fox News to talk negatively about Dick Cheney would you? The fact that they even posted an article on the Halliburton (dick cheney) Iraq overpay is enough for most. Since it happened while Cheney was Vice President, and Republicans held the Washington "trifecta" ... you wouldn't expect charges or investigations to happen, would you? But, Fox News couldn't go without saying "something", seeing as every other major news media addressed it, and more directly I might add. What did you expect Fox News to do, come out and point a finger at Vice President Cheney and accuse him or Halliburton of something? You silly "white boi!" If it walks, quacks, and looks like a duck, it's a DUCK! You'd prefer playing the Wizard of Oz and simply say "ignore that man behind the curtain; I'm the Great Wizard Of Oz, and the Wizard has spoken." Lie, Deny, and Misdirect" ... the Republican way.
.......But, just for conversation, lets just suppose that both Cheney AND Hillary are guilty of what they are charged of ... what are the most lives that you charge Hillary with ... 4-5-6, and even so, not done intentionally? Let's see, seems that Cheney and his accomplice would be responsible for the ******* of over 5,000 of our service men who's families again got to celebrate Christmas without their brave sons, daughters, husbands, and fathers. And, that's not even counting the other countries that were suckered into the Iraq war on a Cheney selfish desire ... count the Brits, the French, Canandians, etc etc ... that comes to around 9,000 or so, and THAT isn't even counting the ones that came home shot all to hell or experiencing deep depressions. Oh wait, then we toss in a few hundred thousand innocent Iraqics (called residual damage) and it appears Mr. Cheney & Mr. Rumsfeld have a lot of ******* on their hands. But, hold it, I'm not done ... as we are still losing lives in Iraq because of the de-stabilization Cheney & company have brought to that region.
.......And what about the US consulates burned, and ambassadors killed under Bush's and Reagan's watches ... think there were a couple dozen or more, (want their names, falcond?) yet you didn't hear Democrats pulling Reagan or Bush into kanagroo committees to testify; don't hear the Republicans crying about those ... or holding 9-10 hearings with Bush, now do you?
......What you are too stubborn to admit is that the reason Republicans continually bring Hillary's e-mails or Bengahzi is not for justice (if she really had done anything wrong, she'd have been convicted by now) ... its to smear her name for the upcoming election. Republicans are focused on getting that "trifecta" again ... so they can tank the country's economy one more time ... hopefully necessitating our reducing or eliminating programs for the poorest Americans so they can give more tax cuts, build a bigger military, and become more confrontational with countries who's governments they don't like?. And if they manage to tank the economy again, they can do what they always do ... yeahhhhh .... "blame it all on Obama".
gif_puppy.gifgif_CRAP.gif
 
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This was posted in 2001.

On Why Various Countries Hate the US

Noam Chomsky, discussion with Robert Siegel
All Things Considered, October 12, 2001

ROBERT SIEGEL, host: In an address to a Labour Party conference last week, British Prime Minister Tony Blair had this to say about the events of September 11th.

Prime Minister TONY BLAIR (Great Britain): Understand the causes of terror. Yes, we should try, but let there be no moral ambiguity about this. Nothing could ever justify the events of 11th of September, and it is to turn justice on its head to pretend it could.

SIEGEL: In the intellectual debate over how the US should respond to terrorism it is not simply hawks vs. doves, nor is it as simple as those who would restrict the focus to Osama bin Laden vs. those who advise also going after states that support terrorism, like Iraq or perhaps Syria. There is another divide, as NPR’s Margot Adler reports.

MARGOT ADLER reporting:

Although it was pretty much ignored when it was published last year, there’s a book that’s been selling briskly ever since the September 11th attacks. The book is called “Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire.” The author, Chalmers Johnson, is a former cold warrior and Asian scholar at the University of California, now retired, who believes that now that the Soviet Union is no more, America must pull back from its overextended reach. The term blowback, says Johnson, was coined by the CIA in the 1950s to refer to unintended consequences of covert operations that come back to haunt the United States. At the time the term was coined, he says, the prime example was the assassination of Iran’s premier, Muhammad Mussadegh.

Mr. CHALMERS JOHNSON (Author, “Blowback”): The result of this egregious interference in the affairs of Iran was to bring the shah to power and 25 years of repression and tyranny, leading finally to the holding of the entire US Embassy in Tehran hostage for over a year and the revolution of the Ayatollah Khomeini.

ADLER: Turning to the current crisis, another instance of blowback would be helping the mujaheddin in Afghanistan and fostering extreme Islamic movements in the fight against the Soviet Union. As Noam Chomsky, a professor of linguistics at MIT and a longtime critic of US policy, puts it…

Professor NOAM CHOMSKY (MIT): I mean, the US bears major responsibility for what happened in Afghanistan in the last 20 years.

Afghanistan was exploited for US purposes as a base for a war against the Russians. And that’s the source of the terrorist networks, the blowback that Chalmers Johnson’s talking about correctly. In the 1990s, when the Russians were out, that country was just torn to shreds by warring militias, a lot of them which we had supported and often continued to support.

ADLER: And by not rebuilding the country and supplying aid, Chomsky argues the United States further fueled Islamic movements leading to the Taliban. Countering the blowback thesis in an article in The New Republic, editor Peter Beinart argues that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan did most of the funding and training of the mujaheddin. Perhaps if we had intervened more, he argues, we would have averted this crisis. He agrees partly with Chomsky about US responsibility for the Taliban in the 1990s after the Cold War.

Mr. PETER BEINART (Editor, The New Republic): When the Soviets left, the country fell into civil war and it was that hideous civil war that the United States washed its hands of that allowed the religious students from the Pakistani border to move north and capture more and more territory until eventually they got to Kabul.

ADLER: In fact, Beinart argues that the US abandonment of Afghanistan after the Soviet Union’s demise was of a piece with its abandonment of Liberia, Somalia and the Congo. In each instance, he says, our lack of intervention provided a fertile ground for terrorism.

For Chalmers Johnson, the idea of blowback puts things in historical context. This is the cost of empire. This is not America’s new war, as certain media organizations have called it.

Mr. JOHNSON: A large number of people around the world obviously believe they’ve been at war with us over the last 20 years and finally just scored.

ADLER: In an editorial in The Washington Post, Michael Kelly calls the idea that the United States is reaping the fruits of imperialism a position that condones evil. And columnists such as Charles Krauthammer, William Kristal and Christopher Hitchens have said much the same. But none has articulated this position as concisely as New York’s mayor, Rudolph Giuliani, in his address to the United Nations on October 1st.

Mayor RUDOLPH GIULIANI (New York City): You’re either with civilization or with terrorists. On one side is democracy, the rule of law and respect for human life. On the other is tyranny, arbitrary executions and mass *******. Those who practice terrorism lose any right to have their cause understood by decent people and lawful nations.

ADLER: But Chomsky argues that the resentment of the United States in much of the Middle East is not based on a hatred of democracy and freedom; it is based on America’s lack of support for democratic governments. Chomsky points to US ties with Saudi Arabia, America’s support of what he calls apartheid like practices toward Palestinians in Israel, and the impact of sanctions against Iraq on children and civilians.

Prof. CHOMSKY: It has nothing to do with our values. In fact, they’re objecting to the fact–openly and overtly, to the fact that we oppose democracy in the region. One of the main things stressed by the monied Muslims is US opposition to democratic tendency.

ADLER: Peter Beinart refutes these arguments one by one. Take the charge that US sanctions against Iraq have led to the death of innocent children. Iraq, he argues, has enough oil for export to fill its hospitals with medicine and the bellies of its children with food.

Mr. BEINART: You can look at the case of the Kurdish-UN run areas in the north, which are subject to exactly the same UN sanctions regime but where hostel supplies are not resold for arms and to build houses as they are under Saddam, but are in fact used for the people’s benefit. And you see, in fact, the ******* mortality rates are better than they were before the start of the Gulf War. So I vehemently reject the idea that just because people in certain parts of the world hate us means we deserve hatred. And that seems to me, I must say, a certain particular pathology of the American left.

ADLER: But it is not only the left that sees negative consequences from America’s expansive reach. Ted Galen Carpenter is vice president for defense and foreign policy studies for the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank. While Carpenter is supportive of strategic US military action in response to the September 11th attacks, he accepts much of the blowback argument.

Mr. TED GALEN CARPENTER (Cato Institute): Has American policy increased the risk of terrorism? I think that needs to be a key question. When we decide to intervene, we now know what the potential cost might be. And it’s not just intervention in the Middle East.

Could a Balkan extremist someday attack a target in the United States?

If we’re honest with ourselves, there’s going to be a much shorter list of things that we might do in the world that we’re going to judge will truly be worth incurring that kind of risk.

ADLER: Even before the US bombing of Afghanistan, many conservatives berated the left for its pacifism. Many on the left countered, ‘Where were you when we were defending women against the Taliban?’ Now they argue that bombing Afghanistan gives bin Laden the very holy war he wants. But what’s striking about this debate is that it’s not only taking place in small magazines like The Nation and The National Review. It’s appearing in national newspapers like The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today. As Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair wrote in their left magazine CounterPunch two weeks ago, ‘If Americans utterly decline to think about their history, that would imply a sense of absolute moral and historical self-assurance equivalent to that of bin Laden. So far,’ they said, ‘that has not happened.’ Margot Adler, NPR News, New York.

CHOMSKY.INFO


So here we have three different reasons/opinions/thoughts on why America is hated/mistrusted/disliked. But notice the themes.

One says its attitude of Americans by other nations populous due to their ideals or behavior/having nukes. Interfering/ having really bad news and TV shows. Yes fox crap I'm talking about you. Yet they mention the US's policies four times out of the ten. If you take the tongue in cheek remarks over Americans abroad, the TV, sports, out of the equation you're left with policies,perceived attitudes/resentment, and nukes.

The seconds poses the theory that the reason why countries hate the US are policies and GNP / finance related. While they have a good point, and resentment can and does breed a dislike/hatred of those who have, by those who do not. Its not the cause. Its a correlation of factors. Policies/financial instability/human rights and attitudes to mention a few. But look again at what is prevalent in the reasoning. policies.

The third and last poses the theory that US policies are the main reasons.

So what do we have. Three different sources all saying basically the same thing. People do not hate the American people as a whole. Just their governments attitude and behavior when implementing the US's foreign policies

OK . So why has US policy led to the US government holding the tails of so many angry tigers?

And yes we will be getting to Domestic and International terrorism. But first. Do you guys want me to stop and shut up? or continue the posts. I'm not trying to make the US or its people look bad. Just explain the difference between hatred for the US v its people. Let me know please.

Well, obviously i cannot comment on all of that, it would take days. I will say this first, forgive me for not taking anything Noam Chomsky says about US opinion or foreign policy to serious as the guy is a Socialist and has been criticized as having anti-american views.

Second, i never said US foreign policy was perfect, its not but no matter what is done or not done people are going to be critical, you cant please everyone but i will leave it in the hands of those who know a lot more than i do to believe the reasons they have are always in the best interest of the US, its allies and its people.

Obviously it would be perfect if every country in the entire world always minded its own business but that is a fantasy.
 
Well, obviously i cannot comment on all of that, it would take days. I will say this first, forgive me for not taking anything Noam Chomsky says about US opinion or foreign policy to serious as the guy is a Socialist and has been criticized as having anti-american views.

Second, i never said US foreign policy was perfect, its not but no matter what is done or not done people are going to be critical, you cant please everyone but i will leave it in the hands of those who know a lot more than i do to believe the reasons they have are always in the best interest of the US, its allies and its people.

Obviously it would be perfect if every country in the entire world always minded its own business but that is a fantasy.

Alanm You're missing the whole point. What you have been given is three different views on how it is not the American man or women who is disliked/hated, but US policies. Whether or not Chomsky is a Socialist, communist or a plain alien. That's not the point. The point being from three different sources you have the same answer. Yes they are for different reasons. But they all end up at the same point of the compass.

My involvement in this discussion isn't to alienate or dictate who, why, when and what the US or its people should do, say or not, its to show, that despite your view everyone hates Americans the reality is quite different.
 
......That Fox News article is not mine, falcond ....... you wouldn't expect Fox News to talk negatively about Dick Cheney would you? The fact that they even posted an article on the Halliburton (dick cheney) Iraq overpay is enough for most. Since it happened while Cheney was Vice President, and Republicans held the Washington "trifecta" ... you wouldn't expect charges or investigations to happen, would you? But, Fox News couldn't go without saying "something", seeing as every other major news media addressed it, and more directly I might add. What did you expect Fox News to do, come out and point a finger at Vice President Cheney and accuse him or Halliburton of something? You silly "white boi!" If it walks, quacks, and looks like a duck, it's a DUCK! You'd prefer playing the Wizard of Oz and simply say "ignore that man behind the curtain; I'm the Great Wizard Of Oz, and the Wizard has spoken." Lie, Deny, and Misdirect" ... the Republican way.
.......But, just for conversation, lets just suppose that both Cheney AND Hillary are guilty of what they are charged of ... what are the most lives that you charge Hillary with ... 4-5-6, and even so, not done intentionally? Let's see, seems that Cheney and his accomplice would be responsible for the ******* of over 5,000 of our service men who's families again got to celebrate Christmas without their brave sons, daughters, husbands, and fathers. And, that's not even counting the other countries that were suckered into the Iraq war on a Cheney selfish desire ... count the Brits, the French, Canandians, etc etc ... that comes to around 9,000 or so, and THAT isn't even counting the ones that came home shot all to hell or experiencing deep depressions. Oh wait, then we toss in a few hundred thousand innocent Iraqics (called residual damage) and it appears Mr. Cheney & Mr. Rumsfeld have a lot of ******* on their hands. But, hold it, I'm not done ... as we are still losing lives in Iraq because of the de-stabilization Cheney & company have brought to that region.
.......And what about the US consulates burned, and ambassadors killed under Bush's and Reagan's watches ... think there were a couple dozen or more, (want their names, falcond?) yet you didn't hear Democrats pulling Reagan or Bush into kanagroo committees to testify; don't hear the Republicans crying about those ... or holding 9-10 hearings with Bush, now do you?
......What you are too stubborn to admit is that the reason Republicans continually bring Hillary's e-mails or Bengahzi is not for justice (if she really had done anything wrong, she'd have been convicted by now) ... its to smear her name for the upcoming election. Republicans are focused on getting that "trifecta" again ... so they can tank the country's economy one more time ... hopefully necessitating our reducing or eliminating programs for the poorest Americans so they can give more tax cuts, build a bigger military, and become more confrontational with countries who's governments they don't like?. And if they manage to tank the economy again, they can do what they always do ... yeahhhhh .... "blame it all on Obama".
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Mac. I thought this article might be of interest to you...Sorry that's its political porn. But hey, porn is porn right?:smoke:

Fact Tank - Our Lives in Numbers
June 24, 2015
7 charts on how the world views President Obama
By Richard Wike24 comments

At Pew Research Center, we’ve tracked global attitudes toward the U.S. president and American foreign policy since the early years of the George W. Bush administration. Our most recent survey of 40 countries from around the world included a number of questions about President Barack Obama and his handling of major international issues. Here are seven charts illustrating how the world views Obama:



1Globally, Obama’s image is mostly positive. Across the 40 countries polled, a median of 65% say they have confidence in Obama to do the right thing in world affairs. A median of just 27% lack confidence in the American leader. Overall, Obama remains much more popular globally than his predecessor, but opinions vary significantly across nations and regions.


2After a difficult year in U.S.-Israeli relations, Obama’s ratings have fallen sharply in Israel. Today, just 49% of Israelis express confidence in him, down from 71% last year. Obama has had strong, and well-publicized, disagreements with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over negotiations with Iran, and Obama’s ratings are especially low among Israelis who identify with Netanyahu’s Likud Party (40% have confidence). Overall, eight-in-ten Israelis disapprove of how Obama is dealing with the issue of Iran’s nuclear program.

3However, the harshest assessments of Obama are found in an increasingly anti-American Russia. Only 11% of Russians express confidence in the U.S. president. Obama has never been very popular in Russia, but 29% did voice confidence in him two years ago, before the outbreak of violence in Ukraine. Nine-in-ten Russians disapprove of how Obama is handling the Ukraine crisis. The percentage of Russians with a favorable view of the U.S. has also declined sharply over the past two years, dropping from 51% in 2013 to 15% this spring.

4The president’s trip to India may have helped his image there. About three-in-four Indians express confidence in Obama, up from 48% in 2014. It’s been a year of high-profile visits in the U.S.-India relationship. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited the U.S. last September, and Obama traveled to India in January. The trip seems to have increased Indians’ familiarity with the American president – the share of the public with no opinion about Obama dropped from 37% last year to 17% today.

5Obama is very popular in Africa (and so was George W. Bush). Obama’s ratings in sub-Saharan Africa are overwhelmingly positive. This year, we surveyed nine countries in the region, and big majorities in each nation express confidence in the American leader. Of course, his predecessor was also largely popular in the region; the rise in anti-Americanism that occurred in many parts of the world during the Bush era was largely absent in Africa.

6Western Europeans are still big Obama fans. Even as a presidential candidate, Obama was popular among Europeans, famously addressing a large crowd in Berlin in July 2008. When Obama entered the White House, his ratings were extremely high, and they’ve only slipped a little since then. At least a majority has confidence in him in each Western European country surveyed. Still, there is disappointment with Obama in the region on certain issues, such as climate change.



7Obama’s ratings on climate change have slipped. When he was elected, expectations were high for Obama on the issue of global climate change. Overall, he still gets positive ratings for how he is handling this issue, but not as positive as a few years ago.

In 12 of the 20 countries where trends from 2010 are available, fewer people now approve of how he is dealing with climate change, which will be a major issue on the international agenda as nations prepare for a major global summit on climate change in Paris in December.

 
......That Fox News article is not mine, falcond ....... you wouldn't expect Fox News to talk negatively about Dick Cheney would you? The fact that they even posted an article on the Halliburton (dick cheney) Iraq overpay is enough for most. Since it happened while Cheney was Vice President, and Republicans held the Washington "trifecta" ... you wouldn't expect charges or investigations to happen, would you? But, Fox News couldn't go without saying "something", seeing as every other major news media addressed it, and more directly I might add. What did you expect Fox News to do, come out and point a finger at Vice President Cheney and accuse him or Halliburton of something? You silly "white boi!" If it walks, quacks, and looks like a duck, it's a DUCK! You'd prefer playing the Wizard of Oz and simply say "ignore that man behind the curtain; I'm the Great Wizard Of Oz, and the Wizard has spoken." Lie, Deny, and Misdirect" ... the Republican way.
.......But, just for conversation, lets just suppose that both Cheney AND Hillary are guilty of what they are charged of ... what are the most lives that you charge Hillary with ... 4-5-6, and even so, not done intentionally? Let's see, seems that Cheney and his accomplice would be responsible for the ******* of over 5,000 of our service men who's families again got to celebrate Christmas without their brave sons, daughters, husbands, and fathers. And, that's not even counting the other countries that were suckered into the Iraq war on a Cheney selfish desire ... count the Brits, the French, Canandians, etc etc ... that comes to around 9,000 or so, and THAT isn't even counting the ones that came home shot all to hell or experiencing deep depressions. Oh wait, then we toss in a few hundred thousand innocent Iraqics (called residual damage) and it appears Mr. Cheney & Mr. Rumsfeld have a lot of ******* on their hands. But, hold it, I'm not done ... as we are still losing lives in Iraq because of the de-stabilization Cheney & company have brought to that region.
.......And what about the US consulates burned, and ambassadors killed under Bush's and Reagan's watches ... think there were a couple dozen or more, (want their names, falcond?) yet you didn't hear Democrats pulling Reagan or Bush into kanagroo committees to testify; don't hear the Republicans crying about those ... or holding 9-10 hearings with Bush, now do you?
......What you are too stubborn to admit is that the reason Republicans continually bring Hillary's e-mails or Bengahzi is not for justice (if she really had done anything wrong, she'd have been convicted by now) ... its to smear her name for the upcoming election. Republicans are focused on getting that "trifecta" again ... so they can tank the country's economy one more time ... hopefully necessitating our reducing or eliminating programs for the poorest Americans so they can give more tax cuts, build a bigger military, and become more confrontational with countries who's governments they don't like?. And if they manage to tank the economy again, they can do what they always do ... yeahhhhh .... "blame it all on Obama".
View attachment 740745View attachment 740747
As for Hillary and how many lives she is responsible for, we will never know, other than Benghazi and other known scandals. We don't know what those classified documents contained. That is the point of it being classified. Again, you compare apples to oranges. We will not know for 50 years. Those classified documents could have contained the name and address of every CIA operative and overseas asset, or they could have contained nothing more than the plans for an additional bathroom in the state department building. We will never know.
The point is, Cheney was investigated and no charges were even remotely close to being filed. So unless you have some proof the FBI investigators didn't stop accusing him of something you damned well don't know he did.
You want to go "calling ducks ducks"? I could go on for days about Obama, Hillary, Pelosi, and Reid. You really want to go there? Bring it on. Otherwise, let's both be sensible and back off the BS.
As for Cheney being responsible for 5,000 lives or the lives in other countries, first, you need to check your numbers. I think you are combining Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan sure as hell was not about oil. They have very little oil. Second, PROVE IT!!! There is already proof that Hillary lied about classified documents being in her email and proof that she violated the law over and over again, according to the FBI, or are you liberal glasses set to filter out the truth too? Must be.
Try again, bucko. Cheney and Rumsfield did not bring instability to Iraq. Obama did by announcing troop strengths and pull out dates. And by pulling out before the Iraqis were properly trained to handle their own security. Every general in the military, retired or not, has said that. Or was that blocked out by your liberal filter glasses too?
And there is a difference between the servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan (Afghanistan was to go after Bin Laden after 9/11. I am still at a loss as to what your beef is with that. If I had my way back then, we would have flattened the place.). The servicemen in Iraq signed up to willingly give their lives. And they knew it was a good possibility (It is war, after all). The State Department employees do not sign up to die. And they had no warning that someone they respected would betray them (A "Stand Down" order to rescue teams is a betrayal.).
I will assume you meant 9/11, instead of 9/10. If you meant to say 9/10, that just shows your mentality as you insult the families of over 3000 victims, as well as those victims. They didn't need to pull GWB in front of a committee, because they had the information, scientifically. Ever hear of the 9/11 commission? Nah. I thought not. Those liberal glasses must be wonderful for filtering so you only see what you want to.
Mac, I will be honest. At first when I was debating you on various issues, it was fun and informative. Now, I have actually started to dislike you, because all you are posting, as fact, are half truths and outright lies that fit your position, instead of examining all sides of the issue. If you want to fabricate things or tell only the side that fits your agenda, you are more than welcome to keep it up. Just know that there are people on here who are not afraid to post the other side, or an objective opinion, like Daphne has.
 
As for Hillary and how many lives she is responsible for, we will never know.
That's right, we won't ever know, because if she had done anything wrong she would have been prosecuted & convicted by now. All you know is what you've been brainwashed to know through your Tea Party programing.
We don't know what those classified documents contained.
Exactly right ... you do NOT KNOW. It could have just as well been absolutely NOTHING. YOU DON"T KNOW.
Cheney was investigated and no charges were even remotely close to being filed. So unless you have some proof the FBI investigators didn't stop accusing him of something you damned well don't know he did.
And you mean you have proof of Hillary, huh? Show this forum that PROOF you have, falcond.
I know Cheney & Rumsfeld convinced Bush there were weapons of mass destruction ... and other than old early 1990's weaponry, none were found. THAT IS FACT ... falcond.
As for Cheney being responsible for 5,000 lives or the lives in other countries, first, you need to check your numbers. I think you are combining Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan sure as hell was not about oil. They have very little oil. Second, PROVE IT!!!
Yeah, Afghanistan was initially about Osama bin Laden ... and there was going to be nowhere he could hide, right .... that's what Bush said. Then 5 years later he tells the press, in front of TVs, that quote "I don't know where Osama is, and I don't care!" unquote. Well, Obama cared, and he did something about it, just like he said he would.
There is already proof that Hillary lied about classified documents being in her email and proof that she violated the law over and over again, according to the FBI.
So, why have they not prosecuted her if they have this humongous PROOF? Could it be that the data she had or sent out or whatever wasn't rated the clearance level it was before it was sent? And what exactly WAS that info?
Cheney and Rumsfield did not bring instability to Iraq. Obama did by announcing troop strengths and pull out dates. And by pulling out before the Iraqis were properly trained to handle their own security. Every general in the military, retired or not, has said that.
And you're a delusional liar falcond.
I will assume you meant 9/11, instead of 9/10. If you meant to say 9/10
Then you would be figuring wrong, falcond.
Mac, I will be honest. At first when I was debating you on various issues, it was fun and informative. Now, I have actually started to dislike you , because all you are posting, as fact, are half truths and outright lies that fit your position, instead of examining all sides of the issue.
I think you need to go stand in front of a mirror and repeat that last sentence. You hardly ever document your sources to any garble you spew out, and then try to discredit anything posted that does provide the source. If it's from the media, you automatically discredit it.
As far as you "liking me" ... oh my, that's going to keep me awake tonight (NOT).
2016 is going to be fun ... unfortunately, I just don't have the free time you seem to have.
pic_ThumbsDown4.jpg pic_political-TeaPartySticker03.jpg ......cartoon_TeaBAGGER.jpg
 
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