Trump lost moving on with new year go Biden

[STIFFBBC]

I appreciate your sensible response. The debate will certainly continue on forever. I want you to know I watched this video in its entirety. In this video, there is zero proof of racism. And in fact, if we go back to that era, specifically that era of New York politics, there were a great many black leaders that cozied up to tRump. I would argue toward BLACK folks, there is little evidence of OVERT, racism, particularly in the public record.

However, I would say That the argument for tRumps racism is not, (no pun intended) black or white, but rather grayish (as are most forms of racism) and is too often simplified and boiled down to the lowest common denominator. No record of him using racial epithets toward black people are readily available, he has appeared to be in the past, what some would perceive as “close” with the members of the black community, and even has and has had black people working for him in his organization. He even did what was “right” so to speak, with regard to the Rainbow Push & Coalition. All of this is true. Regardless of the nature of multiple parties involved (Rev Al, Rev Jackson & tRump) really using each other to futher their agendas, it is all true. So we will leave that aside.

Having said all of that, that doesn’t mean he is not racist. All of these things can be true at the same time. Because he works with or has worked with black people in the past and present, doesn’t mean that he isn't racist on its own. To put these instances up as evidence we would be ignoring his position towards Muslims, and Latinos. His racism toward them is NOT debatable, unless you are willingly ignoring what he has said, done and how he has behaved. Then you would not be arguing in good faith, and so I would end the conversation. However, I assume you are a right thinking person, and are arguing this position in good faith, and not to gaslight. I assume you can see, and that we agree, that as clear mountain spring water, what he hasn‘t expressed openly about or toward “black” people, he has ad nauseam about Latinos and Muslims & middle eastern folks. We could stop there and the argument is over. Nobody debates this in good faith.

However, getting back to black folks, if one wants to look at times where he has not shown open vitriol towards black people as evidence of a lack of racism I would say this. Do not be so blind and so easily fooled. Not denouncing white supremacy, or kinda sorta doing so after the fact, then walking it back and making false equivalencies like saying there were people on “both sides” not not be open “racism“, it’s sure not against it. By calling the NFL players who kneeled “Sons of bitches” is not saying “those N__ers” he wasn’t talking about anybody else but certain folk. When he goes after folks of color in the media, they’re always “low IQ” and so on. Saying “I’m not racist” and hiding behind your connection to “your blacks” as he so eloquently stated, that you have in your orbit doesn’t make you not racist. Even the racists think he’s racist! David Duke of KKK fame, Alt-Right inspired and public speaker Richard Spencer, The Proud Boys multiple other hate groups all endorse him as “their“ guy. That he stands up for and represents what they believe and he can’t even denounce them.

My original point wasn’t about his racism. This is a known fact. Fox News poll of their viewers overwhelmingly saw him as a racist. I almost don’t even care about that. My problem with him is what he is doing to democracy, the law, and the idea of right and wrong. He gives everyone the excuse to be shitty because he is. Look at the public discourse. Everyone just wanting to “own” and “troll” people. “Own the libs“, “trump derangement” blah blah. Ignoring very basic elemental components to what actual DID make this country great. It didn’t need his help, we were already “great”, with room to be better. What are we now? Everyone knows you shouldn’t make money personally through the presidency. Pay to play isn’t that what they call it? Making international policy decisions based on what’s best for your business? Doing all the political bidding, and giving every political advantage to Russia it could ever want. Sacrificing our country for his own personal benefit. These things are OBVIOUS. Thinking he is above the law, that he is a king and not a president. That sommuch he has done and is trying to do is a antithetical to a democracy. I like democracy, I never want to see an autocracy, and left up to him, that’s what we would be.

Regarding his racis racism. I don’t have the brain power desire or time to go through every innuendo, dog whistle, and instance of his speaking with the world loudest bull horn from the worlds most powerful position in a suggestive provocative way when it comes to stoking racial tensions. Nor do I have anymore time to devote to proving and looking up the past civil rights housing lawsuits and violations he and his ******* were brought to court for over the years to present here, or his position on the Central Park 5 even to this day. I don’t. If your choice is to delude yourself into thinking he isn’t racist, then that’s between you and you.

I appreciate your civility, that you watched the short video I provided, and your well thought out arguments but there maybe flaws in each one @Rambbc ?

I postulate, that as ridiculous as it may sound to you, that Donald Trump is not racist against Latinos or those from the Middle East. On many occassions Trump met with President Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, @blkdlaur recently posted how President Trump sent a recent tweet in Farsi expressing support for Iranians protesting Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has already earned over 200,000 likes, making it the "most liked Persian tweet" in the social media giant's history regarding the assassination of General Soleimani.

Trump said: “To the brave, long-suffering people of Iran: I've stood with you since the beginning of my Presidency, and my Administration will continue to stand with you,” Trump tweeted in both English and Farsi. “We are following your protests closely, and are inspired by your courage.”
( https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-10-31/trump-netanyahu-bromance-appears-over )
( https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ost-liked-persian-tweet-in-history-of-twitter )


President Trump famously visited Saudi Arabia in 2017 in Riyadh. You might recall him dancing with the sheikhs with a dance of ceremonial swords partly seen in the clip beneath:
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Riyadh_summit )

With regard to his possible association with racists and Neo-Nazis, Steve Cortes, a political commentator on CNN once curiously supported Trump in the video beneath too:

If you saw that short video above, just over 5 minutes, Cortes explains the Charlottesville incident where different groups argued whether or not to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee and ultimately it was the media who misreported Trump at his media conference at Trump Tower on Tuesday, August 17th, 2017. The greatest argument that Donald Trump is neither a Klansman nor does he espouse any of their racist views ( at the very least not anti-Semitic ) is by the greatest fact that his belovèd ******* Ivanka and Jared Kushner, his *******-in-law, are Jewish and his grandchildren by extension are too. Klansmen are famous for hating Jews too.

On that note with regard to the KKK itself I have observed as early as February 14th 2000, on the clip of "the Today Show" on NBC where Donald Trump publicly distanced himself from David Duke as a racist and a bigot as seen below

With regard to Latinos I do not think he hates them either as America has signed the USMCA deal with Mexico and Canada. And there are strenuous jobs in America that has to get done that Latinos rise to the occasion and do. Particularly those who happen to be low-skilled doing farm work and very labour-intensive jobs. However, I am not insinuating that that is all that they are capable of doing. Those who are more qualified can do other things too and move up the ladder and become guys/gals like the following examples of self-made Hispanic immigrant millionaires:

5 self-made Hispanic immigrant millionaires

A Kauffman study reveals immigrants are almost twice as likely to be entrepreneurs vs. native-born Americans. Here are 5 Latinos who made it big.

www.cnbc.com

On the other hand Trump has to be critical of malevolent forces like the cartels where in prior speeches I suspect any negativity towards Latinos would be towards them as those are the criminals, rapists, et cetera. They are so powerful the cartels are like nation states that are heavily funded and armed better than Ironman. I have observed powerful influences in the media like "El Mencho" who is claimed to be worse than "El Chapo" Guzman. If interested read it for yourself:


Given how the media can misreport the news like how Steve Cortes (of Columbian descent) said in the video above, it could be conceivable that there could be a bias in the Fox News poll you cite where people say Trump is a racist. I have posted many videos from the political right that have a more positive view about Trump that will rarely see the light of day in the media. So it is underreported. So when people inquire anything about Trump they can only cite the negative because that is all they see. As examples check out just some of these videos posted way back here on this thread, I'd repost them but my critics would be nauseated by them once more, seeing that you are new and objective feel free to look at them:
(

https://www.blacktowhite.net/threads/go-trump.160047/page-6

)
( https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/steven-cortes )

Also remember Myriam Witcher? In the 2016 election campaign she embarassed herself stating that there were countless of Latinos besides herself supporting Trump? I doubt that they would all collectively make the same mistake?

Similarly it goes underreported how the second largest group on Facebook, second only to Blacks, are several Latino organizations that are pro-Trump. In fact according to "The Hill"
from (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/450097-why-latinos-back-donald-trump) it states:

"Hispanic Americans will overtake African Americans as the second largest demographic group in the 2020 presidential election. That is bad news for Democrats, who are convinced that they are entitled to these millions of minority voters. Democrats just cannot understand why so many Latinos, especially in important battleground states such as Florida, continue to line up firmly behind President Trump. The thought simply terrifies them."

You did nail get me in a few areas though what Trump said about Kaepernick could have been conducted better by Trump. High points for restraint by Trump not using the N* word but he is a guy like the rest of us. Push your buttons and it will enrage you. And not contradicting what I said about Donald Trump not being a Klansman he did have one attachment to that organization: his dad Fred Trump. Seeing that his own ******* is a source of controversy if I was in his shoes I'd rarely/never talk about that too as it would be embarassing.

Fred Trump, who was probably a vile racist as he was in the company of the KKK in a during a march on Queens, NY during Memorial Day as said on his Wiki page:

"On Memorial Day in 1927, the Ku Klux Klan marched in Queens to protest Protestant American citizens being 'assaulted by Roman Catholic police of New York City.'[18] Trump and six other men were arrested 'on a charge of refusing to disperse from a parade when ordered to do so.' [19][20] All seven arrested were referred to as 'berobed marchers' in the Long Island Daily Press; Trump was the only one not held on charges.[18][21]."
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump )

That had an effect on Donald as it is known that Fred Trump had an effect on Donald's affairs. In fact from the same wiki article on Fred Trump it says:

"Court records showed that four landlords or rental agents confirmed that applications sent to the Trump organization's head office for approval denoted the race of the applicant.[53] A rental agent said that Fred Trump had instructed him 'not to rent to blacks' and to 'decrease the number of black tenants by encouraging them to locate housing elsewhere.'[53]"
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump )

Therefore that was a decision made by Fred Trump potentially forsing Donald Trump to follow his lead as he was still Chairman at that time with the Central Park 5 as Fred Trump was alive and well then.

Furthermore, Fred Trump died in 1999 where he suffered from Alzheimer's disease during the last 6 years of his life. So I postulate that such racist activities roughly ended around 1993 when Donald might have been in a position to run things and correct the mistakes his ******* made which you saw in my prior post where he supported Jesse Jackson as well as his failed bid for presidency too. Just like in Star Wars if you are Luke Skywalker, it doesn't mean you are destined to become Darth Vader.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump )

Lastly did Trump break the law with Russia? I can't say for certain but I am betting against it. As I reminded my long time debating opponent, @subhub174014 , Alan Dershowitz is an Harvard Law Professor who once famously stated that everything about Russia and Trump could be true and it is not a crime, yet he insists Dershowitz is in error. Therefore as studious and learnèd as I suspect you are you too can join @subhub174014 for the exact laws and statutes that Trump broke.

@subhub174014 did part of the work for you as he cited an article from the Washington Post suggesting Trump's greatest crime was committed with his communication with the Ukraine. You can start there. The article was called "Trump has done plenty to warrant impeachment. But the Ukraine allegations are over the top" and here is the link to that article right here:
( https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...eff90c-dbf1-11e9-bfb1-849887369476_story.html )

Then once you discover the exact Title(s), Subtitle(s), Chapter(s), Subchapter(s), Part(s), Subpart(s), Section(s), Subsection(s), Paragraph(s), Subparagraph(s), Clause(s), Subclause(s), Item(s), and Subitem(s) illustrating Trump's breaches of the Code of Laws of the United States of America ( or any other legal document such as the US Constitution itself? ) you can report it here to ultimately prove your point on this site that Donald Trump broke American Laws. Afterwards, you can alert Pelosi, and your favorite Democratic Representative(s) of your findings, appropriate authorities of your discoveries and have Trump impeached, where he can be arrested once the umbrella of the office of POTUS is removed from him. Therefore you would become a hero to the Democrats! Become a celebrity and be a guest on all the late night talk-shows too, write books, and so on, provided you could accomplish that feat?
( https://www.blacktowhite.net/threads/go-trump.160047/post-2757897 )
( https://www.blacktowhite.net/threads/go-trump.160047/post-2758237 )
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Code )

Otherwise it would be 4 more years of President Trump as I doubt any of the DNC candidates has what it takes to defeat Trump in the election later this year @Rambbc ?

By the way I was recognizing that my post is getting lengthy so if you feel I did not address anything you stated feel free and mention anything I might have missed or if you have other areas you might have forgotten to mention too @Rambbc.

 

[Rambbc]

I appreciate your civility, that you watched the short video I provided, and your well thought out arguments but there maybe flaws in each one @Rambbc ?

I postulate, that as ridiculous as it may sound to you, that Donald Trump is not racist against Latinos or those from the Middle East. On many occassions Trump met with President Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, @blkdlaur recently posted how President Trump sent a recent tweet in Farsi expressing support for Iranians protesting Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has already earned over 200,000 likes, making it the "most liked Persian tweet" in the social media giant's history regarding the assassination of General Soleimani.

Trump said: “To the brave, long-suffering people of Iran: I've stood with you since the beginning of my Presidency, and my Administration will continue to stand with you,” Trump tweeted in both English and Farsi. “We are following your protests closely, and are inspired by your courage.”
( https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-10-31/trump-netanyahu-bromance-appears-over )
( https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ost-liked-persian-tweet-in-history-of-twitter )
View attachment 3086401

President Trump famously visited Saudi Arabia in 2017 in Riyadh. You might recall him dancing with the sheikhs with a dance of ceremonial swords partly seen in the clip beneath:
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Riyadh_summit )

With regard to his possible association with racists and Neo-Nazis, Steve Cortes, a political commentator on CNN once curiously supported Trump in the video beneath too:

If you saw that short video above, just over 5 minutes, Cortes explains the Charlottesville incident where different groups argued whether or not to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee and ultimately it was the media who misreported Trump at his media conference at Trump Tower on Tuesday, August 17th, 2017. The greatest argument that Donald Trump is neither a Klansman nor does he espouse any of their racist views ( at the very least not anti-Semitic ) is by the greatest fact that his belovèd ******* Ivanka and Jared Kushner, his *******-in-law, are Jewish and his grandchildren by extension are too. Klansmen are famous for hating Jews too.

On that note with regard to the KKK itself I have observed as early as February 14th 2000, on the clip of "the Today Show" on NBC where Donald Trump publicly distanced himself from David Duke as a racist and a bigot as seen below

With regard to Latinos I do not think he hates them either as America has signed the USMCA deal with Mexico and Canada. And there are strenuous jobs in America that has to get done that Latinos rise to the occasion and do. Particularly those who happen to be low-skilled doing farm work and very labour-intensive jobs. However, I am not insinuating that that is all that they are capable of doing. Those who are more qualified can do other things too and move up the ladder and become guys/gals like the following examples of self-made Hispanic immigrant millionaires:

5 self-made Hispanic immigrant millionaires

A Kauffman study reveals immigrants are almost twice as likely to be entrepreneurs vs. native-born Americans. Here are 5 Latinos who made it big.

www.cnbc.com

Given how the media can misreport the news like how Steve Cortes (of Columbian descent) said in the video above, it could be conceivable that there could be a bias in the Fox News poll you cite where people say Trump is a racist. I have posted many videos from the political right that have a more positive view about Trump that will rarely see the light of day in the media. So it is underreported. So when people inquire anything about Trump they can only cite the negative because that is all they see. As examples check out just some of these videos posted way back here on this thread, I'd repost them but my critics would be nauseated by them once more, seeing that you are new and objective feel free to look at them:

https://www.blacktowhite.net/threads/go-trump.160047/page-6

( https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/steven-cortes )

Also remember Myriam Witcher? In the 2016 election campaign she embarassed herself stating that there were countless of Latinos besides herself supporting Trump? I doubt that they would all collectively make the same mistake?

Similarly it goes underreported how the second largest group on Facebook, second only to Blacks, are several Latino organizations that are pro-Trump. In fact according to "The Hill"
from (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/450097-why-latinos-back-donald-trump) it states:

"Hispanic Americans will overtake African Americans as the second largest demographic group in the 2020 presidential election. That is bad news for Democrats, who are convinced that they are entitled to these millions of minority voters. Democrats just cannot understand why so many Latinos, especially in important battleground states such as Florida, continue to line up firmly behind President Trump. The thought simply terrifies them."

You did nail get me in a few areas though what Trump said about Kaepernick could have been conducted better by Trump. High points for restraint by Trump not using the N* word but he is a guy like the rest of us. Push your buttons and it will enrage you. And not contradicting what I said about Donald Trump not being a Klansman he did have one attachment to that organization: his dad Fred Trump. Seeing that his own ******* is a source of controversy if I was in his shoes I'd rarely/never talk about that too as it would be embarassing.

Fred Trump, who was probably a vile racist as he was in the company of the KKK in a during a march on Queens, NY during Memorial Day as said on his Wiki page:

"On Memorial Day in 1927, the Ku Klux Klan marched in Queens to protest Protestant American citizens being 'assaulted by Roman Catholic police of New York City.'[18] Trump and six other men were arrested 'on a charge of refusing to disperse from a parade when ordered to do so.' [19][20] All seven arrested were referred to as 'berobed marchers' in the Long Island Daily Press; Trump was the only one not held on charges.[18][21]."
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump )

That had an effect on Donald as it is known that Fred Trump had an effect on Donald's affairs. In fact from the same wiki article on Fred Trump it says:

"Court records showed that four landlords or rental agents confirmed that applications sent to the Trump organization's head office for approval denoted the race of the applicant.[53] A rental agent said that Fred Trump had instructed him 'not to rent to blacks' and to 'decrease the number of black tenants by encouraging them to locate housing elsewhere.'[53]"
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump )

Therefore that was a decision made by Fred Trump potentially forsing Donald Trump to follow his lead as he was still Chairman at that time with the Central Park 5 as Fred Trump was alive and well then.

Furthermore, Fred Trump died in 1999 where he suffered from Alzheimer's disease during the last 6 years of his life. So I postulate that such racist activities roughly ended around 1993 when Donald might have been in a position to run things and correct the mistakes his ******* made which you saw in my prior post where he supported Jesse Jackson as well as his failed bid for presidency too. Just like in Star Wars if you are Luke Skywalker, it doesn't mean you are destined to become Darth Vader.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump )

Lastly did Trump break the law with Russia? I can't say for certain but I am betting against it. As I reminded my long time debating opponent, @subhub174014 , Alan Dershowitz is an Harvard Law Professor who once famously stated that everything about Russia and Trump could be true and it is not a crime, yet he insists Dershowitz is in error. Therefore as studious and learnèd as I suspect you are you too can join @subhub174014 for the exact laws and statutes that Trump broke.

@subhub174014 did part of the work for you as he cited an article from the Washington Post suggesting Trump's greatest crime was committed with his communication with the Ukraine. You can start there. The article was called "Trump has done plenty to warrant impeachment. But the Ukraine allegations are over the top" and here is the link to that article right here:
( https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...eff90c-dbf1-11e9-bfb1-849887369476_story.html )

Then once you discover the exact Title(s), Subtitle(s), Chapter(s), Subchapter(s), Part(s), Subpart(s), Section(s), Subsection(s), Paragraph(s), Subparagraph(s), Clause(s), Subclause(s), Item(s), and Subitem(s) illustrating Trump's breaches of the Code of Laws of the United States of America ( or any other legal document such as the US Constitution itself? ) you can report it here to ultimately prove your point on this site that Donald Trump broke American Laws. Afterwards, you can alert Pelosi, and your favorite Democratic Representative(s) of your findings, appropriate authorities of your discoveries and have Trump impeached, where he can be arrested once the umbrella of the office of POTUS is removed from him. Therefore you would become a hero to the Democrats! Become a celebrity and be a guest on all the late night talk-shows too, write books, and so on, provided you could accomplish that feat?
( https://www.blacktowhite.net/threads/go-trump.160047/post-2757897 )
( https://www.blacktowhite.net/threads/go-trump.160047/post-2758237 )
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Code )

Otherwise it would be 4 more years of President Trump as I doubt any of the DNC candidates has what it takes to defeat Trump in the election later this year @Rambbc ?

I’m sorry, I don’t know how read propaganda. But from what I can tell, all of this presupposes I didn’t hear and see tRump do these things in real time. To ignore what I hear and saw from his mouth with my own eyes and ears, is psychotic, the level of self delusion required to believe these things is alarming. It’s not the media telling me anything, it’s what I saw and heard. What you’ve posted here...this is truly madness.

 

[STIFFBBC]

I’m sorry, I don’t know how read propaganda.

You wound me @Rambbc it is not fully propaganda as Trump is not perfect and you unwittingly found areas of weakness with his *******, Fred Trump, and he should have addressed Kaepernick better. Otherwise I suspect Trump could be correct with most of his other affairs while as POTUS. I'm not saying everything because there could be other mistakes I don't know about? Like Covfefe maybe?

Anyways have a great day @Rambbc and enjoy the site.
Peace.

 

[STIFFBBC]

I’m sorry, I don’t know how read propaganda. But from what I can tell, all of this presupposes I didn’t hear and see tRump do these things in real time. To ignore what I hear and saw from his mouth with my own eyes and ears, is psychotic, the level of self delusion required to believe these things is alarming. It’s not the media telling me anything, it’s what I saw and heard. What you’ve posted here...this is truly madness.

Politics is the most pointed subjects there is @Rambbc. I realize you have your beliefs and you were exposed to a variety of media in real time. I suggest that you can also watch a magician like Criss Angel where he pulls off miraculous feats that defy logic. I suggest much like Steve Cortes did that the media also manipulated your beliefs just like Criss Angel does. You are the only one that can decide, but if you prefer not to communicate any further that is up to you too. Peace @Rambbc.

 

[subhub174014]

Ok @subhub174014 again I am technically an alien to the Code of Laws of the United States of America. Again the American Constitution might have been drilled into your head when you went through school. And you recognize that Trump is guilty. Fine. I was hoping you would be able to cite the exact Title(s), Subtitle(s), Chapter(s), Subchapter(s), Part(s), Subpart(s), Section(s), Subsection(s), Paragraph(s), Subparagraph(s), Clause(s), Subclause(s), Item(s), and Subitem(s) illustrating Trump's breaches of American law?

If you can do that no only have you proven Donald Trump's guilt that you posted from the Washington Post called "Trump has done plenty to warrant impeachment. But the Ukraine allegations are over the top" where you would have shut me up there completely, but such a rigorous argument could be sent to Pelosi that she could use against Trump and you would be an hero to the Democrats @subhub174014 where Trump is removed from office? And while you are at it you can send that argument to the authorities as well? After all you did say you wanted Trump locked up? So now would be an excellent time to dust off any of your old school books or other reading material or websites where the Code of Laws of the United States of America are stored to prove your case that Trump broke those laws beyond any reasonable doubt? Or would it be another document(s)? That was what I was after @subhub174014 .

So if you or anyone can find them from your own laws by all means use them.
Otherwise it's four more years President Trump.


( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Code )

11 CFR § 110.20 - Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (52 U.S.C. 30121, 36 U.S.C. 510).

Can a U.S. President Remain in Business Once in Office ...
https://people.howstuffworks.com/can-a-us-president-remain-business-once-office.htm
Nov 29, 2016 · The so-called emoluments clause in Section 1, Article 9 of the Constitution bars any federal office holder from receiving "emoluments" — compensation or pay for services — from foreign governments. Legal scholars say that any money President Trump earns from contracts with foreign governments could fall under this clause, especially if ...

Obstruction of Congress: A Brief Overview of Federal Law ...

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34304.pdf

Obstruction of Congress: A Brief Overview of Federal Law Relating to Interference with Congressional Activities Charles Doyle Senior Specialist in American Public Law November 5, 2010 Congressional Research Service 7-5700 www.crs.gov RL34304 . Obstruction of Congress Congressional Research Service Summary Obstruction of justice is the impediment of governmental activities. There are a …

 

[subhub174014]

@MacNfries I know you are a Christian. I know your position about Trump is similar to @subhub174014 . You clearly understand he is not God. At best Trump might be a prophet like King David: he killed another man to marry his wife and had a c.hild with her. That is not Godly acts but afterwards David was repenting for his acts and God cleared him. Similarly if God were to permit Trump to be re-elected that should settle things too, but possibly Pelosi will try to play her hand with impeachment AFTER Trump wins so as to hound him at a better occasion? Time will ultimately tell?

Bible verses about King David can be found below by the way if any are interested
( https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Samuel+11-12&version=NKJV )

you really think god and the bible is going to put trump back in office.....this guy has admittedly broke every commandment there is and still does to this day.....all of the other presidents were seen going to church....the press would sometimes get a question or two in when they left church.....trump worships no one but him self!

The most obvious way to fulfill this commandment is not to lie or intentionally deceive another by speaking a falsehood. Trump is the master of lying, especially about the actions of others. “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.” The Tenth Commandment forbids the wanting or taking someone else’s property.
Trump and the Ten Commandments - Springfield News-Leader
www.news-leader.com/story/opinion/readers/2018/04/18/trump-and-ten-commandments/52965…


TRUMP AND THE TEN COMMANDMENTS - Page 2 - AARP …

https://community.aarp.org/t5/Politics-Current

...
As I watched THE TEN COMMANDMENTS for the 60th time; I started to think..... how many of the THE TEN COMMANDMENTS has our COMMANDER IN CHIEF broken. Two were real, real, real, real easy. The 7th Commandment- "THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY"- Since TRUMP is a serial adulterer; there is no question of the breaking of this commandment.





Pastor tears into evangelicals for supporting Trump due to ...
https://thehill.com/.../412461-pastor-tears-into-evangelicals-for-supporting-trump
An evangelist pastor criticized religious leaders who are “trading their moral core” by supporting the Trump administration solely due to their stance on abortion. Doug Pagitt, a Minneapolis ...

Why These Evangelical Leaders Are Firmly Against Trump ...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-these-evangelical-leaders-are-firmly-

against-trump...
Rank and file white evangelicals, who make up one-fifth of all registered voters in the U.S., have in fact rallied in favor of the reality TV star-turned-presidential candidate. But a number of high profile evangelical leaders have spoken out against Trump’s campaign, policies, and tactics in recent months.

14 conservative Christians who are not supporting Trump ...

14 conservative Christians who are not supporting Trump - Religion News Service

(RNS) Not all conservative Christians, or evangelicals, have lined up behind Donald Trump for president.

religionnews.com

trump

• 1. Russell Moore. Perhaps no evangelical leader has been more outspoken in opposition to Trump …
  2. Denny Burk. A professor of biblical studies at Boyce College, Denny Burk blogged in March that …
  3. Max Lucado. In a February blog post titled "Decency for President" that he later expanded for The …
  4. Thabiti Anyabwile. The pastor of Anacostia River Church and council member of The Gospel …
  See all full list on religionnews.com

 

[subhub174014]

If the Dems are this indecisive what makes you think the American electorate would not be?

long way to go before it gets to the "nutcuttin"......see more in the next couple of weeks......but warren and sanders going at it and both think they have iowa and a couple others....that would hand the election to trump!
I think Sanders just being in the race gives the election to trump.....

he was a sneaky ******* last election...pulled a lot of *******...….Hillary didn't raise a lot of hell about it except with the DNC...and she got the nod anyway…….but after Sanders would not back her in the election and would not tell his supporters to back her.....check the numbers ...one of the lowest voter turnouts in pres history....don't know how much sanders helped that....but I'm sure he played a part in it.....
if you remember at the start of all this sanders was asked several times if he did not get the nomination would he support who did....he didn't last time

most people like Biden......the mayor...and Amy....but most prefer Biden....but if Sanders supporters don't vote again.....make it kind of tough and makes the black vote that much more important to the dems

 

[subhub174014]

I appreciate your civility, that you watched the short video I provided, and your well thought out arguments but there maybe flaws in each one @Rambbc ?

I postulate, that as ridiculous as it may sound to you, that Donald Trump is not racist against Latinos or those from the Middle East. On many occassions Trump met with President Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, @blkdlaur recently posted how President Trump sent a recent tweet in Farsi expressing support for Iranians protesting Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has already earned over 200,000 likes, making it the "most liked Persian tweet" in the social media giant's history regarding the assassination of General Soleimani.

Trump said: “To the brave, long-suffering people of Iran: I've stood with you since the beginning of my Presidency, and my Administration will continue to stand with you,” Trump tweeted in both English and Farsi. “We are following your protests closely, and are inspired by your courage.”
( https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-10-31/trump-netanyahu-bromance-appears-over )
( https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ost-liked-persian-tweet-in-history-of-twitter )
View attachment 3086401

President Trump famously visited Saudi Arabia in 2017 in Riyadh. You might recall him dancing with the sheikhs with a dance of ceremonial swords partly seen in the clip beneath:
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Riyadh_summit )

With regard to his possible association with racists and Neo-Nazis, Steve Cortes, a political commentator on CNN once curiously supported Trump in the video beneath too:

If you saw that short video above, just over 5 minutes, Cortes explains the Charlottesville incident where different groups argued whether or not to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee and ultimately it was the media who misreported Trump at his media conference at Trump Tower on Tuesday, August 17th, 2017. The greatest argument that Donald Trump is neither a Klansman nor does he espouse any of their racist views ( at the very least not anti-Semitic ) is by the greatest fact that his belovèd ******* Ivanka and Jared Kushner, his *******-in-law, are Jewish and his grandchildren by extension are too. Klansmen are famous for hating Jews too.

On that note with regard to the KKK itself I have observed as early as February 14th 2000, on the clip of "the Today Show" on NBC where Donald Trump publicly distanced himself from David Duke as a racist and a bigot as seen below

With regard to Latinos I do not think he hates them either as America has signed the USMCA deal with Mexico and Canada. And there are strenuous jobs in America that has to get done that Latinos rise to the occasion and do. Particularly those who happen to be low-skilled doing farm work and very labour-intensive jobs. However, I am not insinuating that that is all that they are capable of doing. Those who are more qualified can do other things too and move up the ladder and become guys/gals like the following examples of self-made Hispanic immigrant millionaires:

5 self-made Hispanic immigrant millionaires

A Kauffman study reveals immigrants are almost twice as likely to be entrepreneurs vs. native-born Americans. Here are 5 Latinos who made it big.

www.cnbc.com

On the other hand Trump has to be critical of malevolent forces like the cartels where in prior speeches I suspect any negativity towards Latinos would be towards them as those are the criminals, rapists, et cetera. They are so powerful the cartels are like nation states that are heavily funded and armed better than Ironman. I have observed powerful influences in the media like "El Mencho" who is claimed to be worse than "El Chapo" Guzman. If interested read it for yourself:
View attachment 3086432

Given how the media can misreport the news like how Steve Cortes (of Columbian descent) said in the video above, it could be conceivable that there could be a bias in the Fox News poll you cite where people say Trump is a racist. I have posted many videos from the political right that have a more positive view about Trump that will rarely see the light of day in the media. So it is underreported. So when people inquire anything about Trump they can only cite the negative because that is all they see. As examples check out just some of these videos posted way back here on this thread, I'd repost them but my critics would be nauseated by them once more, seeing that you are new and objective feel free to look at them:
(

https://www.blacktowhite.net/threads/go-trump.160047/page-6

)
( https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/steven-cortes )

Also remember Myriam Witcher? In the 2016 election campaign she embarassed herself stating that there were countless of Latinos besides herself supporting Trump? I doubt that they would all collectively make the same mistake?

Similarly it goes underreported how the second largest group on Facebook, second only to Blacks, are several Latino organizations that are pro-Trump. In fact according to "The Hill"
from (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/450097-why-latinos-back-donald-trump) it states:

"Hispanic Americans will overtake African Americans as the second largest demographic group in the 2020 presidential election. That is bad news for Democrats, who are convinced that they are entitled to these millions of minority voters. Democrats just cannot understand why so many Latinos, especially in important battleground states such as Florida, continue to line up firmly behind President Trump. The thought simply terrifies them."

You did nail get me in a few areas though what Trump said about Kaepernick could have been conducted better by Trump. High points for restraint by Trump not using the N* word but he is a guy like the rest of us. Push your buttons and it will enrage you. And not contradicting what I said about Donald Trump not being a Klansman he did have one attachment to that organization: his dad Fred Trump. Seeing that his own ******* is a source of controversy if I was in his shoes I'd rarely/never talk about that too as it would be embarassing.

Fred Trump, who was probably a vile racist as he was in the company of the KKK in a during a march on Queens, NY during Memorial Day as said on his Wiki page:

"On Memorial Day in 1927, the Ku Klux Klan marched in Queens to protest Protestant American citizens being 'assaulted by Roman Catholic police of New York City.'[18] Trump and six other men were arrested 'on a charge of refusing to disperse from a parade when ordered to do so.' [19][20] All seven arrested were referred to as 'berobed marchers' in the Long Island Daily Press; Trump was the only one not held on charges.[18][21]."
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump )

That had an effect on Donald as it is known that Fred Trump had an effect on Donald's affairs. In fact from the same wiki article on Fred Trump it says:

"Court records showed that four landlords or rental agents confirmed that applications sent to the Trump organization's head office for approval denoted the race of the applicant.[53] A rental agent said that Fred Trump had instructed him 'not to rent to blacks' and to 'decrease the number of black tenants by encouraging them to locate housing elsewhere.'[53]"
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump )

Therefore that was a decision made by Fred Trump potentially forsing Donald Trump to follow his lead as he was still Chairman at that time with the Central Park 5 as Fred Trump was alive and well then.

Furthermore, Fred Trump died in 1999 where he suffered from Alzheimer's disease during the last 6 years of his life. So I postulate that such racist activities roughly ended around 1993 when Donald might have been in a position to run things and correct the mistakes his ******* made which you saw in my prior post where he supported Jesse Jackson as well as his failed bid for presidency too. Just like in Star Wars if you are Luke Skywalker, it doesn't mean you are destined to become Darth Vader.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump )

Lastly did Trump break the law with Russia? I can't say for certain but I am betting against it. As I reminded my long time debating opponent, @subhub174014 , Alan Dershowitz is an Harvard Law Professor who once famously stated that everything about Russia and Trump could be true and it is not a crime, yet he insists Dershowitz is in error. Therefore as studious and learnèd as I suspect you are you too can join @subhub174014 for the exact laws and statutes that Trump broke.

@subhub174014 did part of the work for you as he cited an article from the Washington Post suggesting Trump's greatest crime was committed with his communication with the Ukraine. You can start there. The article was called "Trump has done plenty to warrant impeachment. But the Ukraine allegations are over the top" and here is the link to that article right here:
( https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...eff90c-dbf1-11e9-bfb1-849887369476_story.html )

Then once you discover the exact Title(s), Subtitle(s), Chapter(s), Subchapter(s), Part(s), Subpart(s), Section(s), Subsection(s), Paragraph(s), Subparagraph(s), Clause(s), Subclause(s), Item(s), and Subitem(s) illustrating Trump's breaches of the Code of Laws of the United States of America ( or any other legal document such as the US Constitution itself? ) you can report it here to ultimately prove your point on this site that Donald Trump broke American Laws. Afterwards, you can alert Pelosi, and your favorite Democratic Representative(s) of your findings, appropriate authorities of your discoveries and have Trump impeached, where he can be arrested once the umbrella of the office of POTUS is removed from him. Therefore you would become a hero to the Democrats! Become a celebrity and be a guest on all the late night talk-shows too, write books, and so on, provided you could accomplish that feat?
( https://www.blacktowhite.net/threads/go-trump.160047/post-2757897 )
( https://www.blacktowhite.net/threads/go-trump.160047/post-2758237 )
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Code )

Otherwise it would be 4 more years of President Trump as I doubt any of the DNC candidates has what it takes to defeat Trump in the election later this year @Rambbc ?

By the way I was recognizing that my post is getting lengthy so if you feel I did not address anything you stated feel free and mention anything I might have missed or if you have other areas you might have forgotten to mention too @Rambbc.

Latino's for years have always supported the Republican ways....and the true republican way is not bad....but when you throw in trickle down....and their immigration policies they don't vote republican...and just don't vote....the ones who have made some money go back to supporting the right because they got theirs!

but talk to any latino from any country....they believe in the republican way of thinking.....worked with several for a long time....they won't vote for a republican pres mostly because of immigration....but if they are "middle class"...they vote...and vote republican!

don't know why the left has not worked on that...because of the numbers.....but if you think trump will get a lot of the latino vote...you are wrong....a lot hold him responsible for the violence!




True, there are Latinos who support Trump, for the same reasons that other Americans do: because they are steadfast Republicans, because they admire his business background, or because they like ...
Latino support for Trump on the rise? Not so fast | TheHill
thehill.com/opinion/campaign/426562-latino-support-for-trump-on-the-rise-not-so-fast



Trump 2020 Polls With Hispanics Released - Everyone Hates ...

September 10, 2019 - Bipartisan Report

bipartisanreport.com

trump-2020-polls-with-hispanics-released...
Sep 10, 2019 · There has been some question about how the Hispanic vote would swing in the 2020 presidential election. In the last presidential election in 2016, Donald Trump took in a not insignificant cut of their votes. A new Univision Noticas poll just came out measuring the Latino vote. Both former vice president Joe Biden […]

• Author: Gloria Christie

 

[subhub174014]

I would have to say, someone has gone to far. I will have to find out how making fun of another members religious beliefs can be rightly dealt with.

between you and stiff....you WILL get this shut down!....they (mods) come here and censor what whomever is censoring thinks is fit...varies on the mod.......some of these mods and their new found power are very suseptical to the complainer and act accordingly......but again....if you are just so religious....what are you doing on a porn site?.....and supporting a person a lot of people think is the devil? ( post #6650 above).....so your crying religious whatever just doesn't cut it in my eyes.....but there are mods that will gladly just shut it down or bann people or whatever over to many complaints...…..if you notice after stiff crying to them...a lot of threads just disappeared...they have stated more than once on here....they do not come unless someone "invites" them......you do what you want....but I think your preaching religion here is very fucking PHONY...it is a porn site and a political thread.....you do know there are laws separating church and state......although that is another thing the church is violating a lot anymore

bottom line.....this is not the place for you to proclaim your devotion to god...…….and if you were so religious...you wouldn't be here to begin with!

your devotion to god...on a porn site....is a new low for the right, the church, and comedians everywhere

 

[subhub174014]

You wound me @Rambbc it is not fully propaganda as Trump is not perfect and you unwittingly found areas of weakness with his *******, Fred Trump, and he should have addressed Kaepernick better. Otherwise I suspect Trump could be correct with most of his other affairs while as POTUS. I'm not saying everything because there could be other mistakes I don't know about? Like Covfefe maybe?

Anyways have a great day @Rambbc and enjoy the site.
Peace.

facts have a way of doing that.....you trump people just can not understand that

 

[subhub174014]

Politics is the most pointed subjects there is @Rambbc. I realize you have your beliefs and you were exposed to a variety of media in real time. I suggest that you can also watch a magician like Criss Angel where he pulls off miraculous feats that defy logic. I suggest much like Steve Cortes did that the media also manipulated your beliefs just like Criss Angel does. You are the only one that can decide, but if you prefer not to communicate any further that is up to you too. Peace @Rambbc.

like some of those right wing talk show hosts you like to post as factual responses.....some of whom have been caught lying to try and draw in listeners...….but then the right likes to lie and say whatever anyway so it is just the norm for the right....Fox being their hallmark to begin with...and then throw in some of those you like to quote......

if you value these peoples opinion so much do a little search on their background....find out just how many lies they tell to improve their ratings and swell their audience...which puts money in their pockets...so a little lie here and there....just adds to their bank account preying on the stupidity of the republican voters....and there are a lot of them

 

[Allforthewifey]

Donald and Melania Trump Receive Standing Ovation, 'USA' Chants

President Trump is a well-known sports fan, and he has attended several sports over the last year, including a World Series game in Washington, multiple college football games and a UFC fight.

www.newsweek.com

 

[subhub174014]

Donald and Melania Trump Receive Standing Ovation, 'USA' Chants

President Trump is a well-known sports fan, and he has attended several sports over the last year, including a World Series game in Washington, multiple college football games and a UFC fight.

www.newsweek.com

you misunderstood....that was for impeachment

 

[subhub174014]

just figured out why page is slow to load...….it's stiff's version of the movie channel!



anyway I see Russia has hacked trump's impeachment site...and a place in Ukraine...….what do want to bet that sometime this week we all of a sudden see something surface on Biden

last election Russia spent 20 million a month on pro trump ******* and anti Hillary ******* trying to sway the vote.....guess they figure it is time to start again...but then according to our security Russia has already been hacking here

 

[subhub174014]

Long but interesting read


How Close Did Russia Really Come to Hacking the 2016 ...
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2019/12/26/did-russia-really-hack-2016-election...
Dec 26, 2019 · When it comes to Russian hacking, this threat is not theoretical: It is precisely how Russian state hackers tunneled into Ukrainian electric distribution plants in …

helping trump with Biden smear?


Russian hackers penetrated Ukraine's Burisma, likely ...
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/russian-hackers-penetrated-ukraines-burisma-likely...
Jan 13, 2020 · Russian hackers have successfully penetrated servers of the Ukrainian gas company at the center of President Donald Trump's impeachment, the New …

 

[Allforthewifey]

you misunderstood....that was for impeachment

Only in your fantasies

 

[StanleyCush1]

between you and stiff....you WILL get this shut down!....they (mods) come here and censor what whomever is censoring thinks is fit...varies on the mod.......some of these mods and their new found power are very suseptical to the complainer and act accordingly......but again....if you are just so religious....what are you doing on a porn site?.....and supporting a person a lot of people think is the devil? ( post #6650 above).....so your crying religious whatever just doesn't cut it in my eyes.....but there are mods that will gladly just shut it down or bann people or whatever over to many complaints...…..if you notice after stiff crying to them...a lot of threads just disappeared...they have stated more than once on here....they do not come unless someone "invites" them......you do what you want....but I think your preaching religion here is very fucking PHONY...it is a porn site and a political thread.....you do know there are laws separating church and state......although that is another thing the church is violating a lot anymore

bottom line.....this is not the place for you to proclaim your devotion to god...…….and if you were so religious...you wouldn't be here to begin with!

your devotion to god...on a porn site....is a new low for the right, the church, and comedians everywhere

Thank you for the lecture, what right do you have to Judge me or any other person? I Know I am a backsliding Christian, furthermore there are threads on B2W that deal with church going Hotwifes . None of us are perfect, yes I know there is a God, I haven't attended church for over 3 years. Separation of church and state has nothing to do with individual church members or voting. The attacks on my faith hasn't stopped since I stated that I know God placed Trump in office and no matter how much the democrats hate him no humans will remove him from office until God allows it. I am not preaching, I am simply defending my personal view of the condition of our world today . I have no intention of complaining to any Moderator. I pay for my membership, I have the right to voice my opinion as long as I stay withing the boundaries of the websites rules. I don't swear or call others vulgar names.I think Donald Trump is a good President mainly because he rattles the cages of all those that have corrupted our Government for more than half a century, that I know of. If it will make you, Mac and anyone else happy, I will remove my voice from this thread.

 

[STIFFBBC]

11 CFR § 110.20 - Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (52 U.S.C. 30121, 36 U.S.C. 510).

Can a U.S. President Remain in Business Once in Office ...
https://people.howstuffworks.com/can-a-us-president-remain-business-once-office.htm
Nov 29, 2016 · The so-called emoluments clause in Section 1, Article 9 of the Constitution bars any federal office holder from receiving "emoluments" — compensation or pay for services — from foreign governments. Legal scholars say that any money President Trump earns from contracts with foreign governments could fall under this clause, especially if ...

Obstruction of Congress: A Brief Overview of Federal Law ...

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34304.pdf

Obstruction of Congress: A Brief Overview of Federal Law Relating to Interference with Congressional Activities Charles Doyle Senior Specialist in American Public Law November 5, 2010 Congressional Research Service 7-5700 www.crs.gov RL34304 . Obstruction of Congress Congressional Research Service Summary Obstruction of justice is the impediment of governmental activities. There are a …

Excellent work @subhub174014 where you were able to find such laws so quickly. After such laws are scrutinized where others find no fault with it, and if Pelosi and the Dems choose to remove Trump from the office of POTUS and convict Trump with that law you would win @subhub174014 and I'll shut up. However if Trump is not convicted or found guilty or is not removed from office from that legal statute/statutes you cited I win where Trump stays in office for another term and you get to dine on eternal crow.



In the meantime I will look into that law you cited and follow the news if Trump is removed from office or convicted from those laws where he is not re-elected.

 

[subhub174014]

Excellent work @subhub174014 where you were able to find such laws so quickly. After such laws are scrutinized where others find no fault with it, and if Pelosi and the Dems choose to remove Trump from the office of POTUS and convict Trump with that law you would win @subhub174014 and I'll shut up. However if Trump is not convicted or found guilty or is not removed from office from that legal statute/statutes you cited I win where Trump stays in office for another term and you get to dine on eternal crow.



In the meantime I will look into that law you cited and follow the news if Trump is removed from office or convicted from those laws where he is not re-elected.

no doubt trump broke the laws....and if you notice NOT one republican is discussing that...just trump....but most won't impeach because they know chances of getting another republican pres pretty slim!

 

[STIFFBBC]

11 CFR § 110.20 - Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (52 U.S.C. 30121, 36 U.S.C. 510).

Can a U.S. President Remain in Business Once in Office ...
https://people.howstuffworks.com/can-a-us-president-remain-business-once-office.htm
Nov 29, 2016 · The so-called emoluments clause in Section 1, Article 9 of the Constitution bars any federal office holder from receiving "emoluments" — compensation or pay for services — from foreign governments. Legal scholars say that any money President Trump earns from contracts with foreign governments could fall under this clause, especially if ...

Obstruction of Congress: A Brief Overview of Federal Law ...

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34304.pdf

Obstruction of Congress: A Brief Overview of Federal Law Relating to Interference with Congressional Activities Charles Doyle Senior Specialist in American Public Law November 5, 2010 Congressional Research Service 7-5700 www.crs.gov RL34304 . Obstruction of Congress Congressional Research Service Summary Obstruction of justice is the impediment of governmental activities. There are a …

What about this @subhub174014 ? It cites the legal statute "issued by the FEC (11 CFR §110.20) " that you cited above.
You almost had me but no dice there: Keep looking for other laws that will convict Trump and remove him from office, but that law/laws apparently won't do anything to remove Trump from the office of POTUS @subhub174014 ?

Sorry, Media — Talking to Foreigners Does Not Violate Federal Campaign Laws
Jun 25th, 2019 4 min read

COMMENTARY BY
Hans A. von Spakovsky@HvonSpakovsky
Election Law Reform Initiative and Senior Legal Fellow
Hans von Spakovsky is an authority on a wide range of issues – including civil rights, civil justice, the First Amendment, immigration.

President Trump’s response sparked a furor—one that was long on accusations and short on the actual law governing federal campaigns.SAUL LOEB / Contributor / Getty images
KEY TAKEAWAYS
A federal candidate who is freely given information is not receiving a “contribution” or “thing of value” and is thus not violating federal campaign finance law.
Foreigners are also banned from engaging in independent political expenditures.
Treating information as a financial contribution would bring up constitutional issues.
Copied
It was a hypothetical question about getting information on a political opponent from a foreign national. Yet President Trump’s response sparked a furor—one that was long on accusations and short on the actual law governing federal campaigns.
Here’s the bottom line: a federal candidate who is freely given information is not receiving a “contribution” or “thing of value” and is thus not violating federal campaign finance law or the regulations issued by the Federal Election Commission (FEC). I know. I served as an FEC Commissioner.
If getting dirt on an opponent were a “thing of value,” then any adverse information concerning a candidate—even informed criticism of a rival’s policy proposals—would also have to be considered a “thing of value,” and both would have to listed as a financial “contribution” to a campaign. Such a broad interpretation of the law would be potentially unconstitutional and impractical to administer or enforce. Moreover, it is not a position that has been taken by the FEC.
Get exclusive insider information from Heritage experts delivered straight to your inbox each week. Subscribe to The Agenda >>
Federal law (52 U.S.C. §30121) prohibits a foreign national from contributing or donating money or a “thing of value” to a federal, state, or local candidate or political committee. Foreigners are also banned from engaging in independent political expenditures. That means that the Chinese government, for example, can’t give money directly to a candidate, nor can it buy an ad in the New York Times telling Americans they should vote for or against a particular candidate.
This ban doesn’t prevent foreign nationals from volunteering to help a campaign, as long as the foreigner does not “dictate, control, or directly or indirectly participate in the decision-making process” of the campaign under a regulation issued by the FEC (11 CFR §110.20). The federal statute also says that the term “contribution” does not include an “individual who volunteers to behalf of a candidate.” The FEC specifically notes that a foreign national “may volunteer personal services to a federal candidate or federal political committee without making a contribution.”
According to prior FEC enforcement actions and advisory opinions, this means that a foreign national can, for instance, develop intellectual property such as a website, logos, and trademarks for a campaign as a volunteer (Advisory Opinion 2014-20, Make Your Laws PAC). Under the FEC’s reasoning, a foreigner who volunteers could also do research and share the results with the campaign.
Furthermore, foreign volunteers can speak at campaign events and even solicit contributions for a federal candidate as long as they solicit only Americans and not other foreigners (Advisory Opinion 2004-26, Weller). Why, a talented foreign musician can even contribute an uncompensated performance at a candidate’s fundraiser (Matter Under Review 5987)—as Elton John did at a Radio City Music Hall concert that raised $2.5 million for Hillary Clinton’s campaign.

Treating information as a financial contribution would bring up constitutional issues. How could anyone provide a campaign with any information or advice without running the danger of it being considered a financial contribution?

A foreign national who simply volunteers to provide information to a campaign would certainly seem to fall within this regulatory exemption.
However, the FEC says that this exemption for a foreign volunteer applies only “as long as the individual performing the service is not compensated by anyone.” Makes you wonder why the FEC hasn’t investigated a certain presidential campaign in 2016 that allegedly paid a former British intelligence agent (i.e., a foreigner) to do political opposition research, doesn’t it?
Information freely received from a foreigner is not a money contribution or donation. So does it fall within the “thing of value” phrase in the federal statute? It does not.
That phrase has been used by the FEC to go after individuals who make valuable in-kind contributions to campaigns that are the equivalent of direct dollar donations. For example, if a landlord provides rental space to a campaign free of charge, that would certainly be a “thing of value.” The candidate would have to report the fair market value of that rental space as a contribution to her campaign and the source of the free rent could not be a corporation – or a foreigner.
Treating information as a financial contribution would bring up constitutional issues. As George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley says, such a “loose interpretation” of the term “thing of value” would “raise serious first amendment concerns.” How could anyone provide a campaign with any information or advice without running the danger of it being considered a financial contribution?
Such a view of information as a “thing of value” would be difficult to enforce, too. When the FEC considers whether an in-kind contribution (such as the free rental space mentioned previously) has been made, it must determine the fair market value of the contribution. That can be difficult even when the in-kind contribution is something tangible like free office space. But how do you determine the fair market value of information?
An individual could spend a million dollars doing opposition research on his own that finds out that a candidate is a perfect angel; if he gives that information to the candidate’s opponent, what is it worth? If there is nothing that can be used against the candidate, does the information have zero value to the campaign?
Or what if potentially damaging information is given to a candidate and then becomes public, but has no discernable effect on the election? Did that information have any value? And how is the FEC to judge the extent—if any—to which specific information affected an election?
As a former commissioner who was faced with making such determinations in enforcement cases, I can assure you that trying to determine the fair market value of information would be very problematic and subject to widely differing views among the six commissioners who govern the FEC.
You can debate the wisdom of any candidate deciding to review information voluntarily provided by a foreign national. But the claim that what the president said he would do is illegal and a violation of federal campaign finance law is highly dubious. On the other hand, paying for such information – such as hiring a foreign national to gather opposition research on another candidate and using other foreign nationals to infiltrate the campaign – would be a violation of the law under the FEC’s prior precedent.
This piece originally appeared in Fox News

( https://www.heritage.org/election-i...igners-does-not-violate-federal-campaign-laws )