Do you prefer to be heartless or brainless? (Midterms)

[Angelyn]

I’m gonna set this off. OK, heartless or brainless party, which do you prefer?

I’ll go out on a limb and say that I am totally the brain type. So I would rather be heartless.

Best example is that migrant convoy fiasco now developing in Central America.

I can’t vote for a party that doesn’t even understand the difference between illegal and legal immigration. These guys have no concept of borders and franchise; they don’t even comprehend that voters are legally present and people who beat down the border fences to get instant residency and a first world life are not legally present and not entitled to vote.

While I am not exactly a Trumpist (how many intelligent, internationally mobile nonreligious women can claim to be Trumpists?), I feel so disgusted that this crude and disgusting old white man is actually correct. He may be a bigot, but many of his ideas make sense. In contrast, the far left ‘progressives’ have no clue that they actually need to prioritize their country and voters and community first. Democracy is not about voting for representatives of other countries, other races, other cultures and other localities. Democracy is about voting for your own representatives to represent your interests.

I can forgive Trump for being an idiot. Trump’s not the first construction worker who whistled at me and acted rudely. But I won’t forgive the ‘progressives’ for their idiocy. A lot of them are highly educated people with access to top academic libraries and academic conferences. They have no business putting heart in front of brain.

Really hope that not one of the illegal immigrants now marching to the US border will be granted asylum.

 

[eyespy07]

Now, this is a relevant topic. Ahem, despite what most people might think of the US President, he's right on the money especially about this topic. What he lacks in eloquence and occasionally decorum, he makes up for in blunt honesty. Something that is greatly needed in this day and age of the easily offended. I would have to agree with him that there is much more to this "caravan" than meets the eye. Are these folks misinformed? Greatly. Is this a tragedy waiting to happen? Already is. Foreign powers at work here aimed at destabilizing the US through any means necessary? You can count on it.

As some people may or may not know, illegal immigration is a heated and very divisive topic in the US. Even moreso with midterm elections right around the corner. And those of us who live on border states with Mexico are keenly aware of this. We can only imagine what havoc it could further wreak on our economy what with the increased possiblity of these people "demanding" aid (aka Welfare). And what of our own citizens who need the help? What of the already large number of homeless? We certainly don't need their ranks to swell. Personally, I don't think they bring any marketable skills to the table save for their willingness to work any type menial job. And, of course, under the table. Which exposes them to exploitation, which leads to people becoming desperate and, finally, comitting crimes just to survive. All this is a very probable scenario and not hyperbole. I sure as hell don't want to see that happen.

Back to my last point about foreign powers at work. I can't help but to think this the most logical scenario. What better way to make the US look cold and heartless than by having waves of desperate men, women, and children not only be denied entry at the southern border but to be detained and deported back to their country of origin?
Or worse yet, what if they are injured "while seeking freedom and asylum"? Best believe the media will spin it to serve their agenda.

Lastly, if President Trump does cut off aid to those Central American countries that most of these "migrants" are from, who do you think will step in to fill that vacuum? I have one word for you (and it's one of his favorites): CHINA.

 

[subhub174014]

Now, this is a relevant topic. Ahem, despite what most people might think of the US President, he's right on the money especially about this topic. What he lacks in eloquence and occasionally decorum, he makes up for in blunt honesty. Something that is greatly needed in this day and age of the easily offended. I would have to agree with him that there is much more to this "caravan" than meets the eye. Are these folks misinformed? Greatly. Is this a tragedy waiting to happen? Already is. Foreign powers at work here aimed at destabilizing the US through any means necessary? You can count on it.

As some people may or may not know, illegal immigration is a heated and very divisive topic in the US. Even moreso with midterm elections right around the corner. And those of us who live on border states with Mexico are keenly aware of this. We can only imagine what havoc it could further wreak on our economy what with the increased possiblity of these people "demanding" aid (aka Welfare). And what of our own citizens who need the help? What of the already large number of homeless? We certainly don't need their ranks to swell. Personally, I don't think they bring any marketable skills to the table save for their willingness to work any type menial job. And, of course, under the table. Which exposes them to exploitation, which leads to people becoming desperate and, finally, comitting crimes just to survive. All this is a very probable scenario and not hyperbole. I sure as hell don't want to see that happen.

Back to my last point about foreign powers at work. I can't help but to think this the most logical scenario. What better way to make the US look cold and heartless than by having waves of desperate men, women, and children not only be denied entry at the southern border but to be detained and deported back to their country of origin?
Or worse yet, what if they are injured "while seeking freedom and asylum"? Best believe the media will spin it to serve their agenda.

Lastly, if President Trump does cut off aid to those Central American countries that most of these "migrants" are from, who do you think will step in to fill that vacuum? I have one word for you (and it's one of his favorites): CHINA.

you are right I it being a heated topic....and have no problem with him doing whatever to stop the caravan.....and this caravan thing has to stop!...….
foreign powers at work?...could be...but this caravan thing has been going on the last few years

MS13 in it...probably...and more than likely....from what I read on it they don't come here as MS13...but are highly recruited once here
and there are some innocent ones actually seeking asylum

most are just who knows what...but we need to do something to discourage this....not sure what that is just meeting them at the border and turning them away is only going to slow them down for now...they will be back a few at a time

but taking the children away from their parents and putting all in jiail...is NOT the answer

stop them from coming...put the military there and increase border patrols for at least a month until they go??????? and let Mexico deal with them...maybe Mexico will stop them at their southern border next time...although they went through the motions this time....they need to be more effective in stopping them from entering to begin with


Immigration arrests up, deportations down under Trump
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/07/17/immigration...
Jul 17, 2017 · Trump is following through on his campaign promise to increase deportations, but fewer people are being deported due to backlogged immigration courts.

what that means is...they are coming in and WE ARE PAYING to do whatever with them even jails cost us money!

NOT the friggn answer

Family Separation of 2,000 Migrant ******* Under Trump Policy ...
time.com/5314128/trump-immigration-family-separation-2000-children
Watch video · Nearly 2,000 children were separated from their families in six weeks as the Trump Administration cracked down on illegal immigration

 

[eyespy07]

Sadly, as we saw, Mexico was poorly equipped and quickly becamed too overwhelmed to effectively handle the situation. Plus, these people have their sights set on the USA no matter what. They know how other Latin American countries operate and that's why they want to come here. What I don't get is, since they are citizens of their own respective countries, why don't they make demands of their own governments? That's their right in their own countries.

 

[subhub174014]

Sadly, as we saw, Mexico was poorly equipped and quickly becamed too overwhelmed to effectively handle the situation. Plus, these people have their sights set on the USA no matter what. They know how other Latin American countries operate and that's why they want to come here. What I don't get is, since they are citizens of their own respective countries, why don't they make demands of their own governments? That's their right in their own countries.

can't argue that......but I still think if we just refuse entry to most! (let them apply like others a few at a time) and ******* them to stay in Mexico while they applied...instead of us just putting them all in jail and separating them from their families at what kind of cost to us and the hardship of what this administration is doing to the families........... even those that will never make it here for whatever reason keep them in Mexico........I would think the people would get tired of that and maybe go home...also mexico get tired of it and do a better job of stopping them before they ever came in

 

[Angelyn]

There's really a lot going on of course, too much for me to address in one or even a dozen posts. And I'm not really keen on pumping out political essays to prove that I'm smart or well informed. My OP was a frustrated rant, and if it came across as that, no surprise here.

I have always had some liberal sympathies, but not so much that I would support a conventional Democrat. One of the first people I ever voted for was Nader.

But far outweighing my liberal sympathies...

As a woman I am a big fan of law and order. Women always suffer more than men in situations of disorder. A lot of people don't realize that women want social order and civilization more than men. Just that the Republicans are too patrician/ patriarchal. Women outside the Christian conservative minority are not natural Republican voters.

Out of fear of the possible physical and symbolic violence from the extreme left, I would not dare say this in public, and especially not on my facebook page - but I think that the entire migrant caravan should be denied asylum in the US. It is an established fact of international law that the international agreements on refugees were meant for people fleeing persecution and genocide. High crime rates, presence of gangs, general poverty are all not valid reasons for asylum. Because there is no ethnic or religious persecution or civil war taking place in Honduras and Guatemala currently, pretty much none of these people should qualify for asylum and they should be deported immediately.

What I suspect is that neither Honduras nor Guatemala have arrived at their Duterte moment yet. Both of them, like the Philippines, are actually multiparty democracies where there are a vast number of weak political players. Their political systems are too weak to actually persecute or oppress any minority group, hence their citizens don't have a fair claim to refuge in other countries under established principles of international law. But because neither Honduras nor Guatemala have suffered enough, they haven't elected leaders who can take strong action to prevent their societies from disintegrating.

In the Philippines, people finally had enough of escalating ******* crime, and voted in Rodrigo Duterte. For all his flaws, Duterte has greatly cleaned up the country and scared the crap out of corrupt officials.

As long as the populations of central America feel that they have a safety valve in the United States, they will keep on taking advantage of this. Then they will never bite the bullet and take strong action to solve their internal problems.

 

[eyespy07]

That's exactly right. And very astute observations of other countries like the Philippines. The USA has always been the safety valve or "fall back plan" for many migrants. For better or worse, our generosity and willingness to offer aid has sometimes come back to bite us in the ass. Americans (though greatly admired by some countries) have the distinction of being known as too gullible. When you pair that with people who are extremely street smart/savvy/ resourceful aka "survivors", you can tell what's going to happen next.

 

[Angelyn]

NYTimes has an article today by George Yancy. Another of his extreme left antics designed to please other people on the extreme left.

It's all very sad that the political left in the US can't be trusted with basic issues like law and order, the national community, a community consensus on who is in and who is out. I'm already turned off by the political right who think that the US is a Christian God Fearing State. Why do the democrats insist on pissing off their potential voters? Why are they so obsessed with currying favor from minority groups that are not even legally present in the US?

I would dearly love to vote for someone who isn't owned by big businesses and doesn't need a safe space to hide in while he/she/it/whatever decides on his/her/its preferred bathroom.

 

[TwoBiFour]

Back to my last point about foreign powers at work.

I think you are more correct here than you might think. I find it odd that thousands of people suddenly decide to march on the US all at once. I think they were sent here for a purpose, probably knowing they will be turned away. If you think about it, as bad as the media paints Trump to be, these would be the worst times to try and get into the US. If Trump is the Hater racist the media paints him to be, then why would anyone want to come here if not for any other reason than to give the Media more Cannon Fodder. I think these mass-march's are orchestrated events, it's like an avalanche, you only need to get the ball rolling.

 

[germansheperd]

I still don't understand why its called a 'caravan' it is an invasion plain and simple.

 

[MacNfries]

re: do you prefer to be heartless or brainless midterms

There's really a lot going on of course, too much for me to address in one or even a dozen posts. And I'm not really keen on pumping out political essays to prove that I'm smart or well informed. My OP was a frustrated rant, and if it came across as that, no surprise here.

Angelyn, you use the "migrant convoy fiasco" as an example, but, I believe your intent is to call attention to one party's heartlessness compared to the other party's brainlessness, correct? Problem is, it is your own opinion as to which party represents which affliction. You consider yourself intelligent, and I'm certainly not challenging that, but you are injecting your opinion into your own survey. If your intention is to get opinion strictly on whether one would prefer to be brainless (low intelligence) or heartless (self absorbed) your survey most surely fails by the injection of your own politics, as politics is most assuredly a matter of one's own opinions & beliefs. And it certainly isn't factual 100% of the time as money has a way of changing one's opinion on practically anything.
Example: As it has been determined that most voters are interested in the resolvement of a healthcare plan, the past 2-3 days many Republicans & Trump have been trying to convince voters that THEY are the ones who supported "insuring pre-existing conditions" ... not the Democrats. So this simply provess this party's brainlessness if they THINK that the public isn't quite aware that it was Republicans who went on voting record to not want pre-existing conditions covered through ACA/Obamacare. Even NOW, in congress, Republicans have submitted an amendment to remove coverage for pre-existing conditions. So, does the President, and the Republicans expect the public to be this low informed and ignorant of what is going on with the issues regarding healthcare and how the parties & representatives have stood on the issue of pre-X? In this particular example, who would you think exemplifies both ignorance AND brainlessness?

 

[Angelyn]

I think you are more correct here than you might think. I find it odd that thousands of people suddenly decide to march on the US all at once. I think they were sent here for a purpose, probably knowing they will be turned away. If you think about it, as bad as the media paints Trump to be, these would be the worst times to try and get into the US. If Trump is the Hater racist the media paints him to be, then why would anyone want to come here if not for any other reason than to give the Media more Cannon Fodder. I think these mass-march's are orchestrated events, it's like an avalanche, you only need to get the ball rolling.

They are orchestrated events, just not by US Democrats but by Honduran activists who were trying to put political pressure and embarrass the right-wing Honduran president.

Problem with most of Latin America is that the rich/ right wing doesn't care about the poor/ left wing. There are many possible solutions to alleviating the problems of high crime, but the rich prefer to insulate themselves and hire security thugs rather than pay higher taxes and fund a strong police *******.

Unfortunately the Honduran government doesn't feel embarrassed. Rich people in Honduras really don't mind if the unwashed masses feel so miserable that they want to emigrate. There has been practically no brow beating and soul searching in Honduras, where the politicians and thinkers are of the view that 'if the poor don't like it, they can always leave'. And the people on the bottom, the social activists, actually think that 'emigration is a better solution because the US will always let us in' rather than 'organize our own Peronists and kick out the scalawags at the ballot box'.

Why do we not have millions of Argentines rushing to the US? Because they voted in Juan Peron (and other Peronists). Everytime the income gap gets too big, the politicians start redistributing. People are not so miserable that they feel the need to emigrate.

What is the solution? Cut off aid to Honduras and limit investment in countries that refuse to solve their migracion problem. The United States actually gives a few hundred million a year, but of course most US aid doesn't flow into the pockets of the poor. If rich and powerful Hondurans actually suffered the consequences of their country's bad policies, they would have incentive to take care of the poor.

 

[Angelyn]

I do not accept 'refugees' need to be sheltered and fed at the public expense the way they do in Europe.

I believe all refugees to the US should be made to work, and restricted to work that doesn't compete with US citizens. EG fruit picking. If you are a professor and think that you are too superior to pick fruits, no problem, just stay home instead of getting on that caravan, apply as per normal to some left wing college like Berkeley for a HB1 visa to teach Syrian archaeology or Honduran labor economics.

One thing I am very sure of based on my personal experiences: no 'refugee' is ever going to get tenure if the Academic Establishment (meaning the political left) can help it. Your professor is going to find that picking fruits is much more profitable than teaching one class a semester on the pennies doled out by the slavemasters of liberal arts colleges.

Of course some people are gonna say I am heartless. But as a grad student, I lived for years on a lower income than the benefits they dole out to 'refugees' in some Nordic countries. I survived because unlike other women I am not high maintenance and spend close to nothing on cosmetics and clothes. But anyone who wants to give 'refugees' freebies automatically sends me to vote for his competitor.

 

[eyespy07]

I do not accept 'refugees' need to be sheltered and fed at the public expense the way they do in Europe.

I believe all refugees to the US should be made to work, and restricted to work that doesn't compete with US citizens. EG fruit picking. If you are a professor and think that you are too superior to pick fruits, no problem, just stay home instead of getting on that caravan, apply as per normal to some left wing college like Berkeley for a HB1 visa to teach Syrian archaeology or Honduran labor economics.

One thing I am very sure of based on my personal experiences: no 'refugee' is ever going to get tenure if the Academic Establishment (meaning the political left) can help it. Your professor is going to find that picking fruits is much more profitable than teaching one class a semester on the pennies doled out by the slavemasters of liberal arts colleges.

Of course some people are gonna say I am heartless. But as a grad student, I lived for years on a lower income than the benefits they dole out to 'refugees' in some Nordic countries. I survived because unlike other women I am not high maintenance and spend close to nothing on cosmetics and clothes. But anyone who wants to give 'refugees' freebies automatically sends me to vote for his competitor.

This makes a lot of sense to me, Angelyn. You sure you don't want to give politics a try? You've got my vote.

 

[Angelyn]

This makes a lot of sense to me, Angelyn. You sure you don't want to give politics a try? You've got my vote.

I do eat out. At so-called 'ethnic' places fairly often. If I took a sensible, meaning nonreligious, non big business but generally conservative position, I won't be able to eat without being bothered by left wing mobs...

You know that thing Thatcher said about socialism being great until you run out of other people's money to spend?

Most universities are like that. They're actually funded by the rich white males they hate so much. Their endowments were often started during a period of slavery or ethnic cleansing or exploitative labor practices. But to hear the ideological rants of their current administrators and employees...

 

[eyespy07]

Have you thought of writing a blog? This is good stuff.

 

[subhub174014]

I’ll go out on a limb and say that I am totally the brain type. So I would rather be heartless.

I undertand your picking on both parties...they both have more have enough to complain about...neither one is representing the people who put them in office...nor doing a very good job of taking care of the country

But what I find odd.....is with you...and there are a lot more of you on this site...that seem to be favoring the right
the right is about as racist as you can get right now and very open about it
you seem to support that......and yet on a IR site looking for?...you surely didn't come here to talk politics....and your dislike for minorities brings you here for....?????...very confusing to say the least

although what the hell....there seems to be a few "Kain West's" types on here so maybe that's what you are looking for

I'm about as lib as you can get...….and yet I think I am like most other libbers...and not the anti American's this president tries to portray us to be.....I am for immigration it is what this country was founded on...but LEGAL immigration!....and I think there is more to these "caravans" than we know...and we need to find out what started this or who....
also I know trump is trying to instill fear in us about this caravan....to push his agenda...so I don't buy his hype either
so I guess I am not confused as to which party I represent......although not really a Dem....just anti right!....no confusion here......pretty firm in the party that is the lesser of two evils

 

[MacNfries]

None of us, here, really know the conditions in Central America that would make families leave their countries and chance the dangers they are making to reach a safer place. I hear living conditions are horrific in Central America due to corrupt governments.

 

[PrivateDancer9]

I’m gonna set this off. OK, heartless or brainless party, which do you prefer?

I’ll go out on a limb and say that I am totally the brain type. So I would rather be heartless.

Best example is that migrant convoy fiasco now developing in Central America.

I can’t vote for a party that doesn’t even understand the difference between illegal and legal immigration. These guys have no concept of borders and franchise; they don’t even comprehend that voters are legally present and people who beat down the border fences to get instant residency and a first world life are not legally present and not entitled to vote.

While I am not exactly a Trumpist (how many intelligent, internationally mobile nonreligious women can claim to be Trumpists?), I feel so disgusted that this crude and disgusting old white man is actually correct. He may be a bigot, but many of his ideas make sense. In contrast, the far left ‘progressives’ have no clue that they actually need to prioritize their country and voters and community first. Democracy is not about voting for representatives of other countries, other races, other cultures and other localities. Democracy is about voting for your own representatives to represent your interests.

I can forgive Trump for being an idiot. Trump’s not the first construction worker who whistled at me and acted rudely. But I won’t forgive the ‘progressives’ for their idiocy. A lot of them are highly educated people with access to top academic libraries and academic conferences. They have no business putting heart in front of brain.

Really hope that not one of the illegal immigrants now marching to the US border will be granted asylum.

You can forgive Trump for being an idiot
Well well that tells the ENTIRE story

YOU FORGIVE his xenophobic racist narcissistic misogynistic leanings
YOU FORGIVE him tearing this country apart by instilling fear and inciting violence
YOU FORGIVE his back channel illegal dealings and traitorous behavior
YOU FORGIVE him not being proficient in public policy decorum or just taking the time to read his daily briefings
YOU FORGIVE him LYING every single day to his supporters
YOU FORGIVE him manipulating and twisting facts like taffy

Yet you want to be screwed by black men
The same men that Trump despises and makes no secret about
You want BBC
Although you can forgive the lies deceit and smears by your President

You have your opinion and this is mine
In order to advance his agenda he lies thru his teeth
By any means necessary
Even at the expense of further dividing this country
Along class economics or ideology

Do you ever ask yourself when is it too much?

You know he thinks very little about women unless he’s screwing them
He thinks very little about immigrants unless he’s marrying them
or they are working in his hotels or vineyards

He mocks and ridicules Gold Star families
He mocks and ridicules assault survivors
He mocks and ridicules the disabled
He mocks and ridicules POC

You know he’s too busy to visit the military
But you’re OK with that

You know that he insists on using an unsecured phone line
and you can forgive his late night chats with Putin?

Have you actually read a transcript of his conferences
Have you read his Twitter account
This is not normal behavior for a 73 yr old man
He has stunted development.

I don’t support people that have this much hate for my fellow man and the human condition. You don’t have to declare a political affiliation to know the difference between right and wrong
BLACK and WHITE
Some things are elementary

He lies and creates scenarios to instill fear and incite violence
His contempt for gays transgenders people with disabilities POC women science or basic FACTS is beyond my understanding
He lacks EMPATHY for hurricane survivors women who have experienced assault children separated at the border people coming to America for asylum from shithole countries victims of school shootings and lately victims of the MAGAbomber

I can’t nor will I ever FORGIVE the unforgivable and indefensible

It’s not on both sides
It’s on his side
The wrong side
He has never done anything for the good of another person

He nor the New Trump Party will never get my support and I will not sugar coat what he SAYS and DOES so that it is palatable

 

[Angelyn]

I undertand your picking on both parties...they both have more have enough to complain about...neither one is representing the people who put them in office...nor doing a very good job of taking care of the country

But what I find odd.....is with you...and there are a lot more of you on this site...that seem to be favoring the right
the right is about as racist as you can get right now and very open about it
s

Have you been following my thread, or are you just responding to one post? Not only do I not favor the right, I don't even vote for them.

My first ever vote went for Nader. My last presidential candidate was Jill Stein.

I do not like the democrats enough to vote for them. And when I get accused of being 'for Trump' just because I didn't vote for Clinton...

I react the same way as did the other women in my close circle, when Gloria Steinem and Madeline Albright tried to arm twist women into all voting for Clinton.

The Democrats in the US are no less bigoted and obsessed with identity politics than the Republicans. Just look at their quasi-religious language. Women who don't vote HRC are going to hell?

There are a lot of people who dislike Trump. In another post I made a month ago, I was mocking Trump's faux alpha maleness and praising Obama's alphaness. But quite a lot of Trump's thinking actually makes sense. Because the political left is so obsessed with Trump's racism and sexism, they totally cannot see past their blinkers.

For all the crowing about Hillary winning the popular vote, it was STILL a minority vote. And I strongly believe that the next election would be the same way. Both the Democrat and the Republican candidates are going to get a minority of all ballots cast, even if there was zero voter suppression and zero Russian interference. Because people in the middle, like me, don't like the democrats enough to go near them. They seem to think that anyone who doesn't support them is a racist/ misogynist/ religious fanatic/ name the derogatory phrase.